Gender Dysphoria - Printable Version
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RE: Gender Dysphoria - MissC - 08-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 08:10 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: And, it IS a medical condition in most cases, not a sexual fetish, not a disorder of the mind that can be "corrected" with the right psychologist's intervention. The established treatments aim to lessen the dyphoria. I'm not sure how many completely eliminate anxiety, especially those who transition late in life.
I'm sorry, but here's where my umbrage comes out... not at you, mind, but at the idea that being something other than binary gendered is a disease.
Look at it this way: on one hand, we have people telling us that gender is a "social construct" -- and in some ways, it is. Then on the other hand, we have surgeons ready to cut us up so we fit the social construct, and that insurance should pay for it because it's a "medical condition"! Well, which fucking one is it, anyway?
Look at it another way -- in the case of dysphoria, there are two possibilities: there's something wrong with your body, or there's something wrong with your head. I mean, if we're going to agree that there's something actually wrong, which I don't.
How about the other dysphorias? It's generally agreed that these are mental oddities, treatable by counseling. Ah, but gender dysphoria, a mental condition... we treat with... plastic surgery? Or is it a "birth defect" we treat with hormone pills? Come on now. There's so much horseshit swirling around. When I even hear the word "transition" in this context, it gets my blood pressure up, because it's nothing more than a euphemism for "cut your junk off".
What I'm saying is simple: you're over-thinking it.
My perspective? I'm bi-gendered. I'm a male tomboy with a side of princess. I am one, not like the rest, but I have my place to exist. I have no dysphoria. Mind and body match -- androgynous body, androgynous mind.
You may not be just like me, but you too have your place, your niche, your little cubbyhole. Maybe you're alone in a little cubbyhole, and enviously eyeing a big cubbyhole with lots of fun people in it... but there we go with the grass-is-greener-other-side stuff again.
It's really all about getting in touch with yourself, and matching mind, body, soul together. Skip the doctors and the shrinks -- smoke some weed and meditate. Maybe some yoga or tai chi. I'm saying that what you're going through is a mind-body disconnect... and it's the mind that has to do the yeoman's work of putting them back right.
No joke. I've been through all this. I've gone from an angry person, to a well-adjusted and happy one, so I know of what I speak.
RE: Gender Dysphoria - Samantha Rogers - 08-03-2014
Just to throw in my 2 cents here, a complicating factor is age. Just as most people have things they want or would like or dream about, which are differed because of other life considerations and end up on a bucket list, I believe there are bucket list items for those with a GID of some kind.
Whether growing breasts, or dressing, or dressing in public or taking hormones or whatever (it will be different for everyone), all these steps may exist in us as not so much a path to happiness or fulfillment, since those goals lie not in external things but rather in how we feel about ourselves, but rather as goals to achieve and experience along the course of our life, simply because we want to. Just as you can really know you want a great steak or a perfect cut of fish for dinner tonight, without expecting that that dinner will make the rest of your life happy. But dying without ever experiencing that great steak would be a tragedy (assuming that is something on your list, of course).
What I mean is that before I die there are an array of things I want to experience. Aspects of gender are part of that. Do I want to experience a full transition along with surgery. No. Absolutely not. There are many aspects of being male I do not wish to forgo at this point in my life and with my current circumstances. Will the steps I am taking now become a permanent part of my life. IDK, really. But I sure do not want to wait until I am even older (and uglier) before I get to experience these feelings. It may well be, in fact that as my appearance degenerates further into age, the desire to dress fully may disappear from the table, taken off by my own unwillingness to continue in the face of insurmountable odds. But really... who knows... I am just ecstatic to finally be in a place to realize some of the experiences I have wanted for so many years. As I said somewhere else, I wish I had not waited so long to reach this point. But on reflection, at earlier stages of my life, sublimation of my true desires would have had me unable to admit to wanting what I want now, and would have had me rationalizing not taking these steps through a wide array of very persuasive sounding arguments. In the end, now, I am able to look back and see these rationalizations for what they were... decisions based in fear.
RE: Gender Dysphoria - GoneGirl - 08-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 09:22 PM)MissC Wrote: Look at it another way -- in the case of dysphoria, there are two possibilities: there's something wrong with your body, or there's something wrong with your head. I mean, if we're going to agree that there's something actually wrong, which I don't.
MissC, you misunderstand. I don't think there's anything wrong, but the fact is, there is a mismatch. The mismatch causes the dysphoria. You can say it shouldn't, but it does, and those who suffer from it deserve to be treated for their condition, if possible, like any other congenital "defect".
Clara
RE: Gender Dysphoria - Samantha Rogers - 08-03-2014
Clara, you two may be engaging in semantics. What is "wrong" is wrong with society.
The trick is finding whatever it is that allows us to be comfortable with oureslves despite what we are told by society. Isn't it?
RE: Gender Dysphoria - GoneGirl - 08-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 11:04 PM)Samantha Rogers Wrote: Clara, you two may be engaging in semantics. What is "wrong" is wrong with society.
The trick is finding whatever it is that allows us to be comfortable with oureslves despite what we are told by society. Isn't it?
That's the trick, Sammie. If it were only so simple.
Clara
RE: Gender Dysphoria - GoneGirl - 08-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 11:08 PM)ClaraKay Wrote:(08-03-2014, 11:04 PM)Samantha Rogers Wrote: Clara, you two may be engaging in semantics. What is "wrong" is wrong with society.
The trick is finding whatever it is that allows us to be comfortable with oureslves despite what we are told by society. Isn't it?
That's the trick, Sammie. If it were only so simple.
Clara
I'm not convinced that social constructs are the sole source of our gender dysphoria. I admit they play a huge factor. What are the prospect for a different world?
People have a penchant for conformity. Peer pressure, fashion trends, the latest craze, you name it, people like to flock together. Kids, in particular, are shunned, teased, excluded for sometimes the smallest deviations in looks, behaviors, social standing, not to mention gender variation.
I don't see that aspect of human nature ever changing. To be born a girl with a boy's body is always going to be liability and a social hurdle as long as such people are in the minority. Gender dysphoria will be an issue that many will struggle to overcome, as many of us are struggling, for a long time. Maybe that's why gender therapists will be necessary for a long time. The afflicted have to come to accept themselves in the face of societal disapproval, bigotry, and ignorance. Society, unfortunately, is the dog and we're the tail. Some would say we are the dog's shit.
Clara
RE: Gender Dysphoria - SarahSchilling - 08-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 11:31 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: Society, unfortunately, is the dog and we're the tail. Some would say we are the dog's shit.
I think the dog is rabid and/or senile, with self-destructive tendencies.
Who the hell is it to judge anyone? lol
RE: Gender Dysphoria - flamesabers - 09-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 08:10 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: This discussion is very interesting to me. It seems that both of you (Kari and Flame) arrived at where you are today through an evolutionary process that spanned a considerable time. That's encouraging.
An evolutionary process is exactly how I would describe my progression of my gender identity. Great minds do think alike.
(08-03-2014, 08:10 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: Flame, I'm not sure what you mean by a "male ego". Do you mean arrogance, self-assuredness, and self-importance? I'm not sure I know how male-ego differs from female-ego. These characteristics are shared by both men and women. Women may hide their egos so as not to appear bossy or bitchy (one of society's female no-nos), but underneath the deferential facade, can lie a most self-seeking individual. It might help me to explain that.
What I mean by "male ego" is an identification as being a male. Being male is merely a biological fact for me and nothing more. Stated differently, I don't feel the urge to emulate what other males say or do, nor do I feel compelled to be manly. For instance, the phrase "take it like a man" is meaningless to me on an emotional level.
(08-03-2014, 08:10 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: I like your philosophy, Flame, and would like to emulate it, but knowing that you started your journey at age 16 makes me wonder if that's possible. It seems that you have come to a point in life where your gender has been confirmed or affirmed, and maybe that IS the ultimate solution. Everyone I know, except my wife, knows me as a normal male, not the gender-variant person that I truly am. So I continue to live in a gender purgatory, neither here nor there, not knowing to which side I will end up.
To be honest, I'm not sure when my journey truly started. Ever since I started thinking about who I was and how a lot of my personality traits such as being kind, gentle, obedient and quiet were much more common among girls than boys, I wondered what my gender identity really was. This was long before I knew about transsexuality at age 16. At a young age, I had no personal compunction with doing feminine things like painting my nails because my mom and sister were. During my time at recess in elementary school I enjoyed being on the swings or playing tag with the girls rather than playing catch with the guys. For P.E., I was much more fond of jump rope than shooting hoops or something.
Outside of this forum, I doubt really any of the people I interact with in some shape or form suspect I'm anything but a normal male. I think most people aren't on the lookout, especially with my physical build and height. Maybe some individuals have picked up on my peculiarities, but nobody has called me out on it as far as I know. I suppose eventually my breast development may change this.
RE: Gender Dysphoria - GoneGirl - 09-03-2014
I looked back at my original post that pointed out that my gender dysphoria, though alleviated in one sense, continues in another, despite my herbal HRT program.
What I take away from this discussion that is helpful is:
1. That I must be patient. Flame points out that she has no schedule or time table for reaching her goal. Although I'm twice Flame's age, and time is getting short, it still makes sense to let the process flow at its own rate. I like her financial advice, too.
2. I found comfort in Kari Leigh's recounting of some of the phases she's lived through on her journey that are very similar to my own experience. There does come a point where this rough road becomes smoother; we find out where we fit into the world on a sustained basis.
3. MissC makes the point that a lot of the problem and its solution can be found within us. Dwelling on the negatives instead of the positives can be very damaging.
4. I'm reminded by my friend Sammie, that I can't change society. I have to find a way to integrate into society in a way that suits my needs and personality.
These ideas are just guidelines, not a recipe for eternal bliss, but should help frame the problem and recognize solutions.
Thanks girls, you're advice has been most helpful.
Clara
RE: Gender Dysphoria - GoneGirl - 10-03-2014
Last week was eye opening for me. So many things were laid bare before me, even as I was fighting off intestinal flu. It was a useful week in spite of having to run to the loo every hour.
I took a close look at myself -- my feelings and my actions last week and came to better understand that I have a strong male gender identity along with a significant female identity. Lately, my female identity has been given full rein, and she has taken it. Sammie's outing brought dreams of doing the same even though that idea would never have crossed my mind a couple of months ago.
It's perfectly reasonable that one side or the other of one's gender identity is going to take over at various times. What happens during a crisis at your house? Do you as the man, as the husband, jump in to take control and bring things back to normal if possible? I have always been that way. That's my male personality taking over, and I'm proud of that. I can be unfeelingly calm and rational in those moments, sometimes unthinkingly aggressive, but the job gets done. My wife loves that about me, by the way.
Last week, feeling sick and somewhat helpless was a small crisis that evoked some of the same kind response from my male side; thus my more aggressive, challenging, and critical demeanor at home and on-line emerged somewhat. Hey, what can say? That was me.
My restarting this, the Gender Dysphoria thread, the other day was in response to what I now think is some reverse gender dysphoria that I have been experiencing. I have been suppressing my male identity a lot lately in the whirlwind euphoria of finding my female side at long last. I have gone too far down that path and have to back off some to try to restore a healthy balance.
What I've just described was extremely important for me to understand and acknowledge. On any particular day, one side of my gender identity or the other will take the lead. Inevitably, both will be unhappy with their status. One day I want to be more feminine and resent my masculine qualities, but then on another day I see my feminine side as taking away many of the masculine qualities that I have built a life with. There's no complete resolution to this competition, only a delicate standoff -- a compromise to give and take in equal measure or whatever balance is right for me. That balance is still mine to establish, but I think I came closer yesterday in the point-counterpoint on Kari Leigh's thread about what's good about masculinity. I found myself becoming upset with some of the posts that really offended my male identity. The offense was personal for me, and it made me realize that I have enough male identity that it just can't be discounted.
Is this good news for me? Well, yes and no. Part of me is jealous of the other part of me and vice versa. This is the conflict we gender variant individuals have to deal with day in and day out. Based on stories that have been posted over the years, I'm sure many of you, too, are experiencing some of the same misgivings.
To minimize this unsettled sense of who I am is going to take some doing. I'm nearly through 5 months of NBE and 7 or 8 months since I discovered my crossdreaming nature. I'm still looking for that "best fit" gender expression.
Today, I feel mentally very good. I think it's because I've moved back closer to that magic point where neither my inner man, nor my inner woman are hurting. That's quite a revelation to me. I think I can use this experience to help find a sustainable mental peace.
Your comments are welcome. I promise not to bite your head off.
Hugs (and a hearty handshake),
Clara (and that other guy)