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Two Spirit individuals - Marina Kits - 01-12-2014

A pastor actually pointed this out to me. I didn't realize that Native Americans don't (didn't) restrict themselves to only two gender classes. They recognized and even exalted a third category called "two-spirits" because they embodied both male and female traits and were given special privileges and responsibilities. Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit_identity_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

Lately I've been wrestling with the gender categories our culture adheres to and how I don't think I fit in either of them very well. I identify MOST with females but there are some undeniably typically masculine traits I posses. Strangely, I've even been a little frustrated with our cultural definition of transgender. It seems like it's just a purgatory of sorts while we move from one gender to the other, whichever way we happen to be going but it's not a place you can reside in for very long. The two spirit view fits me a lot better and it requires no movement in either direction. However, because I identify more with female, I'd still like to get some anatomical repairs done. Thoughts anyone?

RE: Two Spirit individuals - flamesabers - 01-12-2014

Hi Kari. Smile

Yes, I'm aware of the concept of two-spirit individuals. Jennifer (the author of Cogiati) talked about this concept on her site. I identify as being a third gender individual. I think it suits my predisposition to question and bend gender norms while also not having a desire to go through the transition process.

RE: Two Spirit individuals - pom19 - 01-12-2014

In biology, there is an organism that has reproductive organs normally associated with both male and female sexes. It is called hermaphrodite. See below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite






RE: Two Spirit individuals - ❇ Abby ❇ - 05-12-2014

(01-12-2014, 02:42 AM)kari leigh Wrote:  A pastor actually pointed this out to me. I didn't realize that Native Americans don't (didn't) restrict themselves to only two gender classes. They recognized and even exalted a third category called "two-spirits" because they embodied both male and female traits and were given special privileges and responsibilities. Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit_identity_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

Lately I've been wrestling with the gender categories our culture adheres to and how I don't think I fit in either of them very well. I identify MOST with females but there are some undeniably typically masculine traits I posses. Strangely, I've even been a little frustrated with our cultural definition of transgender. It seems like it's just a purgatory of sorts while we move from one gender to the other, whichever way we happen to be going but it's not a place you can reside in for very long. The two spirit view fits me a lot better and it requires no movement in either direction. However, because I identify more with female, I'd still like to get some anatomical repairs done. Thoughts anyone?

Thank you for posting this Kari.

Very interesting. I have not heard of the Native American "two-spirits" theory before.

I have read about various pacific island and Asian cultures that except and even celebrate third gender people.


Denita

RE: Two Spirit individuals - flamesabers - 05-12-2014

(05-12-2014, 04:09 AM)Denita Wrote:  I have read about various pacific island and Asian cultures that except and even celebrate third gender people.

Very true Denita. It reminds me of how some cultures values introverted behavior in contrast to the extroverted western societies.


RE: Two Spirit individuals - ❇ Abby ❇ - 05-12-2014

(05-12-2014, 04:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote:  
(05-12-2014, 04:09 AM)Denita Wrote:  I have read about various pacific island and Asian cultures that except and even celebrate third gender people.

Very true Denita. It reminds me of how some cultures values introverted behavior in contrast to the extroverted western societies.

Sadly it was when these cultures came into contact with Europeans that the problem with being transgender started.



RE: Two Spirit individuals - MichelleM - 05-12-2014

I think MissC discussed this concept several times.

I've been thinking I might well be a "two spirit" myself.

Michelle

RE: Two Spirit individuals - Marina Kits - 07-12-2014

Since my OP, I found and watched this video. If you're not an Amazon Prime member and you find a link to watch it elsewhere, please post it. It originally aired on PBS but I couldn't find a link on their website to view it. It's well worth watching if you can find it.

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Spirits-Lydia-Nibley/dp/B0057HOSEA/ref=sr_1_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1417965496&sr=1-1&keywords=two+spirits+documentary

My only criticism is that there are a few references to homosexuality which some (most actually) lump in with transgender or vise versa. I personally think sexual identity and gender identity are two VERY different aspects of a person, ...but that's just me.

RE: Two Spirit individuals - ❇ Abby ❇ - 08-12-2014

(07-12-2014, 04:25 PM)kari leigh Wrote:  Since my OP, I found and watched this video. If you're not an Amazon Prime member and you find a link to watch it elsewhere, please post it. It originally aired on PBS but I couldn't find a link on their website to view it. It's well worth watching if you can find it.

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Spirits-Lydia-Nibley/dp/B0057HOSEA/ref=sr_1_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1417965496&sr=1-1&keywords=two+spirits+documentary

My only criticism is that there are a few references to homosexuality which some (most actually) lump in with transgender or vise versa. I personally think sexual identity and gender identity are two VERY different aspects of a person, ...but that's just me.

The DVD and information is available to buy from the official web site.

[Image: twospiritsnewlogo1.gif]
http://twospirits.org/


Found the page on PBS web site. Interesting link to a map of Multi-Gender Traditions Worldwide.
PBS: Two Spirits


Denita

RE: Two Spirit individuals - pom19 - 08-12-2014

Thanks Denita. <3 POM