An alternative view - Printable Version
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An alternative view - Misty0732 - 23-12-2014
When I first visited this forum two years ago, I found it largely frequented by genetic males who (for whatever reason) were seeking natural breast development. Some were also dealing with varying degrees of gender dysphoria. Very few, however, were in serious transition or had any intention to start serious transition. At least that is how it seemed to me.
I found real help here. Help I couldn't get in other TS/TG forums that universally rejected the notion that a genetic male with gender dysphoria could successfully deal with the issue in any way other than full transition (with prescription pharma HRT).
In the last few months things seem to have changed here. While I'm in no way criticizing or seeking to demean those that have chosen transition, I feel that in some ways those of us who have not are being marginalized or excluded. I'm not pointing fingers nor do I intend to point to any examples -- it's just a feeling I get as I read through the various posts.
So here's my position. My gender dysphoria is very real. Before I started using PM I was intensely interested in feminizing my body to the point where I couldn't possibly hide it, even though I knew that there would be substantial consequences I would have to deal with. Within weeks after starting PM that desire started diminishing -- to the point where I am quite happy to continue to present as male. I know that the PM continues to feminize me, but I also know that there is a definite limit to that progress and I will always be able to present as male, even if I have to make a definitive effort (much as a FTM transsexual would).
I believe that I was androgen-starved during gestation, and that my brain is essentially "female" in pattern, and hence craves estrogen over testosterone. Testosterone, in fact, is toxic to me at normal male levels and causes the dysphoria to accelerate (and also drives a lot of other over-sexed and undesirable behavior in me). When I take PM, my brain gets the estrogen it craves and I become a *much* better person.
The fact that my dysphoria greatly diminishes while taking PM supports this hypothesis (for my specific case). I guess what I hope to present is that not everyone is going to be unhappy if they don't ultimately transition, and that the GD can be successfully managed in at least some individuals. If I had discovered this forum today that's not the viewpoint I would take away from the discussion. I think that's unfortunate because I am sure there are lurkers here who could benefit from the alternative perspective.
Again, it's not my intention to criticize those who are actively seeking transition and I believe it is healthy and positive for those going down that path to opening discuss the issues they face on this forum. I also believe that for some, myself included, transition is not the best answer.
Hopefully I'm not opening Pandora's box. If those on this forum feel I'm out of line or am in any way hurtful to others here I will sincerely apologize and withdraw from the discussion.
Misty
RE: An alternative view - flamesabers - 24-12-2014
Hello Misty,
I think part of the issue is the differences in dynamics between the transitioning and non-transitioning members. The former tends to post lots of full-body pictures and use their own picture as their avatar. In contrast, the latter group does not. Just look at our avatars for instance. Another factor is the level of excitement running in each group. Those transitioning have a wide variety of surprises, benefits and challenges to contend with, whether the non-transitioning have far fewer. Beyond the novelty of breast development in the first few months, it's straightforward to be able to go on auto-pilot mode with NBE so to speak. I think it's a lot easier to form bonds with other members when you have lots in common with each other such as walking on the path of transitioning.
What do you think?
RE: An alternative view - froger - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 05:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote: Beyond the novelty of breast development in the first few months, it's straightforward to be able to go on auto-pilot mode with NBE so to speak.
I suspect this happens a lot. I think the forum is used for the great informational resource it is. Once setup and going on NBE many may not have a reason and/or desire to participate in the community. Boob growing is a painfully slow process. If that's all your after you may not be interested in the other ongoings around here. I know I've seen some usernames browsing more than a few times yet they have never posted. I think what I want to say is the users who want to talk about things post a lot more than the users who don't. Perhaps this leads to the feeling of the forum leaning in a direction.
RE: An alternative view - Lenneth - 24-12-2014
in a lot of different topics lately I either have to little time to reply or I simply don't know what to say (which can also track back to being absurdly busy/tired).
I have a somewhat complicated life and the last year or so I've had just about everything imaginable going haywire one way or another (often disastrously so) that has been keeping me more or less run off my feet most of the time.
It's not you guys/gals, I just haven't been getting the free time/energy.
RE: An alternative view - Misty0732 - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 05:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote: I think part of the issue is the differences in dynamics between the transitioning and non-transitioning members. The former tends to post lots of full-body pictures and use their own picture as their avatar. In contrast, the latter group does not. Just look at our avatars for instance. Another factor is the level of excitement running in each group. Those transitioning have a wide variety of surprises, benefits and challenges to contend with, whether the non-transitioning have far fewer. Beyond the novelty of breast development in the first few months, it's straightforward to be able to go on auto-pilot mode with NBE so to speak. I think it's a lot easier to form bonds with other members when you have lots in common with each other such as walking on the path of transitioning.
You definitely make very valid points, flame. I certainly understand the desire the transitioning members have to share with each other. It is a very scary path and I can see how reinforcement is critical for those making the decisions. That's probably why the other sites are so intolerant of alternate opinions (an effort to try and hold the confusion down for those wrestling with the decisions).
That's why I don't tend to comment on those threads. It's not that I disapprove of their decisions -- I don't -- it's just I am afraid for them. By that I mean I'm afraid for what they may have to endure. The day may come when our society is blind to gender identity and accepts TGs in the same way it accepts different hairstyles or clothing choices. But that day is not today. People can be very cruel.
Let me clarify my position a bit. I have stated that I am "happy" continuing to present as male. A better word is "content". I do still like feeling female, I wear panties almost exclusively, I love having developing breasts (a good solid B cup now), and wear women's PJs at night. What I don't feel is a need to present as female to anyone besides my wife. I used to have that urge but the PM keeps it down. In that way I feel that my GD is "under control" in a way that allows me to be happy and at peace without the fear of hurting those closest to me.
Thanks again for the inputs.
Misty
RE: An alternative view - Misty0732 - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 06:23 AM)froger Wrote: I suspect this happens a lot. I think the forum is used for the great informational resource it is. Once setup and going on NBE many may not have a reason and/or desire to participate in the community. Boob growing is a painfully slow process. If that's all your after you may not be interested in the other ongoings around here.
Thanks for the response, froger. You are right, especially for those only growing breasts. In my case I am dealing with GD as well (which is why I posted this in the Gender Identity section) but not to the degree that some others are. I guess I'm probably somewhere in the middle of the TG scale, and hence I'm also here looking for advice. I was feeling a bit overwhelmed for a while as all the advice appeared to be directed at full transition (much like the other TS/TG sites).
I struggled a bit with posting what I did because I absolutely do not want to come across as critical or negative to those on a different path. I still struggle with that... that is, how to pose a question or make an observation about alternatives to transition without it seeming critical to others pursuing full transition.
Misty
RE: An alternative view - Misty0732 - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 07:30 AM)Lenneth Wrote: in a lot of different topics lately I either have to little time to reply or I simply don't know what to say (which can also track back to being absurdly busy/tired).
I know *exactly* what you mean, especially about not knowing what to say.
(24-12-2014, 07:30 AM)Lenneth Wrote: I have a somewhat complicated life and the last year or so I've had just about everything imaginable going haywire one way or another (often disastrously so) that has been keeping me more or less run off my feet most of the time.
I can empathize here as well. The past two years have been rough in areas unrelated to my GD (medical issues) but for the last six months or so I'm feeling much more optimistic about life. My major medical concern now is the muscle twitching I have mentioned in another thread. But they are benign -- just annoying -- and don't contribute substantially to stress.
My point being that "life happens" and we all have times that are more difficult than others. I truly hope things settle down for you soon... thank you for your thoughts!
Misty
RE: An alternative view - b.rose - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 04:29 PM)Misty0732 Wrote: [transition] is a very scary path
As a transitioner, when my "fear of being me" outweighed "my fear of what others thought", transition no longer scared me.
(24-12-2014, 04:29 PM)Misty0732 Wrote: That's why I don't tend to comment on those threads.
I tend not to comment on non-transition stuff because I do not understand why someone with any form of GD would not want to transition. Not transitioning is, at a deep level, baffling to me. Intellectually I think I understand but somewhere deep in my water I know I do not. So there is little I can contribute to help understanding beyond the describing of physical sensations - what breast buds feel like and so on. I am aware that the failure is mine so I do not intend criticism of others' decisions. My decisions may appear equally baffling to them.
Transition, OTOH, is a process I understand well, both socially and medically. I have been through almost the entire process except for my GRS surgery in a few months time and many of my friends have been through the whole process. So I do not mind commenting or offering advice on transition.
At root, perhaps the difference is explained by the fact that GD covers a very broad range of symptoms and the intensity of GD varies wildly too. Those with "GD-lite" are generally happy with their male identity or at least not as distressed as someone with "GD-heavy" who has developed a very feminine internal identity. This gives very different world views, very different goals and very different needs. The differing outlooks mean that misunderstandings are more common just as men and women often fail to understand each others motivations.
I guess that in some respects we are chalk and cheese.
RE: An alternative view - b.rose - 24-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 05:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote: [Transitioners] use their own picture as their avatar. In contrast, the [non-transition] group does not. Just look at our avatars for instance.
I think that the reason for this is a very simple one. Those who transition have to be open. Their whole body is changing and their social identity with it. This is the whole point of the transition, to align the mind, body and social aspects. For non-transitioners who wish to grow breasts this process involves a high degree of risk should they be found out. Jobs and relationships could be at risk so they have to remain "stealth". Those of us who transition accept the huge social cost as part of the package. We do not like it but we understand it can happen and does happen.
Growing breasts can be a low-risk activity if kept quiet. If concealed it need result in no loss of social status, jobs or relationships. That cannot be said about transition.
RE: An alternative view - MissC - 25-12-2014
(24-12-2014, 05:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote: I think part of the issue is the differences in dynamics between the transitioning and non-transitioning members.
Non-transitioning... feels a little bit like a negative connotation to me, plus, as far as I go about in society, I could be seen as having "transitioned" -- just without the synthetics and surgeries. No one would know the difference. There's "non-op" but that leaves out the male-presenting because it implies an "everything-but-SRS" thing. We need a new word! A neologism please!
How about "Original Plumbing-Positive"?
(with positive used as in 'sex-positive')
(24-12-2014, 05:38 AM)flamesabers Wrote: The former tends to post lots of full-body pictures and use their own picture as their avatar. In contrast, the latter group does not. Just look at our avatars for instance. Another factor is the level of excitement running in each group.
What came to my mind was a football metaphor. Some people don't care about it at all, some watch the games and own a hat or a shirt with their team's logo... and then some people wear only shorts, foam cheese hats, and body paint to every single game through a Minnesota winter.
In each case, we can sort of put a finger on how much of a person's life, percentage-wise, is dominated by that activity.
It seems to me that we are talking about the same thing here if we substitute "pursuit of femininity" for "football" -- to what degree is a person's life consumed by that pursuit? The painted fans are not casual fans. Their lives are dominated by football. They talk about it with their friends, play fantasy league, get tattooed, watch on TV, tailgate, spend obscene amounts of money on branded clothing and season tickets, and even cry when their team loses.
But most people just aren't that into it. My football consumption, for example, is limited to seeing the latest score on the front page of the paper. I certainly invest more of myself in pursuit of the feminine than I do football, but there are still many more important things in my life.
Gender does not dominate my life... it enhances it. It's not my life; it's part of life.
Moderation in all things, they say. Anything at all can take over your life, from booze to marathons to skydiving to S&M. We call that tendency -- rightly or wrongly, and to varying degrees of danger -- addiction. (A running addiction is probably healthier than an alcohol addiction -- unless a bus runs over you during a 10K. But it's still healthier, and socially pretty much harmless. YMMV, etc.)
We hear the term "pink fog"... it's stuck around, I believe, because we all know there's a fundamental truth there.