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RE: Herbal Viagra - Lotus - 14-05-2016

(14-05-2016, 02:38 AM)VergeOfDiscovery Wrote:  Keeping in mind it's also a weak phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitor and mimics testosterone in rats.

Gym rats no doubt. Smile

The key point here is promoting estrogen bio-synthesis (e.g. NBE), while including Icariin with NBE it promotes aromatase (CYP19A) in human ovarian cell line. Think past cAMP (second messenger mRNA signaling).

PED type 5 inhibitors inhibit the CYP 450 enzyme. From what I've researched (and personally believe) is when we inhibit the signaling of CYP 450 enzymes, it magnifies the amount of free circulating E2.

RE: Herbal Viagra - Stevenator. - 14-05-2016

(14-05-2016, 04:58 AM)Lotus Wrote:  
(14-05-2016, 02:38 AM)VergeOfDiscovery Wrote:  Keeping in mind it's also a weak phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitor and mimics testosterone in rats.

Gym rats no doubt. Smile

The key point here is promoting estrogen bio-synthesis (e.g. NBE), while including Icariin with NBE it promotes aromatase (CYP19A) in human ovarian cell line. Think past cAMP (second messenger mRNA signaling).

PED type 5 inhibitors inhibit the CYP 450 enzyme. From what I've researched (and personally believe) is when we inhibit the signaling of CYP 450 enzymes, it magnifies the amount of free circulating E2.

No comprende, senora ... This is 100% Greek to me.

I do not understand the language of CYP, cAMP, mRNA, PED, etc., etc., etc.

I'm just hoping there is a "General Concencous" on what products can give you a woody while taking PM.

Should I search labels for what products contain Icariin ?

To dumb it down even further, try "Brand X" might be more to my understanding.

Thanks, again.

RE: Herbal Viagra - VergeOfDiscovery - 14-05-2016

For your aim...skip the maca.

Check out the reviews for Arginine & Ornithine combo supplement at Vitamin Shoppe. It's fairly cheap.

RE: Herbal Viagra - Lotus - 14-05-2016

(14-05-2016, 05:41 AM)Stevenator Wrote:  
(14-05-2016, 04:58 AM)Lotus Wrote:  
(14-05-2016, 02:38 AM)VergeOfDiscovery Wrote:  Keeping in mind it's also a weak phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitor and mimics testosterone in rats.

Gym rats no doubt. Smile

The key point here is promoting estrogen bio-synthesis (e.g. NBE), while including Icariin with NBE it promotes aromatase (CYP19A) in human ovarian cell line. Think past cAMP (second messenger mRNA signaling).

PED type 5 inhibitors inhibit the CYP 450 enzyme. From what I've researched (and personally believe) is when we inhibit the signaling of CYP 450 enzymes, it magnifies the amount of free circulating E2.

No comprende, senora ... This is 100% Greek to me.

I do not understand the language of CYP, cAMP, mRNA, PED, etc., etc., etc.

I'm just hoping there is a "General Concencous" on what products can give you a woody while taking PM.

Should I search labels for what products contain Icariin ?

To dumb it down even further, try "Brand X" might be more to my understanding.

Thanks, again.

Sorry, no problema.

Example: An older male with low T takes phytoestrogens/anti-androgens to grow boobs, with his T lowered, he then supplements a T promoting herb/pharma med and ends up getting a burst of more estrogen (conversion of aromatase from T).

This is the delicate balance (or dance lol) between keeping male function and growing boobs.

RE: Herbal Viagra - Stevenator. - 14-05-2016

Thank you all for the replies. I apologize for all the questions. I try to follow along with the science on this site but sometimes the acronyms throw me off, and it gets overwhelming. Plus, you all have been studying this longer than me. I'm about 6 months into research. Most info is from randomn threads & it's all hard to connect the dots. I do realize the balance at hand here. The wife much prefers me smooth & skirted, but demands her weekly Sunday afternoon romp & I still want to give it to her. I love the magic effects of PM. It just seems there should be an easy pill for the other effect, too. The HGW aromatase sounds promising.

Ok ... I "think" I've got this. Horny Goat Weed w/ Icariin, and/or Arginine & Ornithine. Thanks for the input, and replies. Please feel free to add input & reply.

RE: Herbal Viagra - tanysquirrel - 14-05-2016

(14-05-2016, 02:38 AM)VergeOfDiscovery Wrote:  Keeping in mind it's also a weak phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitor and mimics testosterone in rats.

Gym rats no doubt. Smile

seeing that, all I can think of is those commercials for the gyms.. (planet fitness I think?) Tongue

RE: Herbal Viagra - VergeOfDiscovery - 15-05-2016

And with their phosphodiesterase 5 inhibited...like a bunch of muscly satyrs bandying about lol

RE: Herbal Viagra - surferjoe2007 - 15-05-2016

(14-05-2016, 08:43 AM)Stevenator Wrote:  Thank you all for the replies. I apologize for all the questions. I try to follow along with the science on this site but sometimes the acronyms throw me off, and it gets overwhelming. Plus, you all have been studying this longer than me. I'm about 6 months into research. Most info is from randomn threads & it's all hard to connect the dots. I do realize the balance at hand here. The wife much prefers me smooth & skirted, but demands her weekly Sunday afternoon romp & I still want to give it to her. I love the magic effects of PM. It just seems there should be an easy pill for the other effect, too. The HGW aromatase sounds promising.

Ok ... I "think" I've got this. Horny Goat Weed w/ Icariin, and/or Arginine & Ornithine. Thanks for the input, and replies. Please feel free to add input & reply.
Try oysters, or at least 30 mg zinc. You need 6,000 mg L-arginine plus a little of other aminos including L-Ornithine. To avoid diarrhea you have to spread it out into 3-5 doses. Eating lots of nuts and meat to get the aminos may be simpler, up to you. Pumpkin seeds are really nice there because they have double the L-arginine of other nuts, plus some zinc and many other things beneficial to men. Sprouted is easier to digest than raw, or roasted is next best. You can also take raw seeds and soak them in water for 4 hours.

You might also look into 500-1,000 mg 100:1 tongkat ali extract and catuaba. Maybe an aromatase inhibitor though that also means less T converted to E. See below.

This is a difficult goal, but I'll break it down. A- => B means A reduces B (and reducing A increases B). A +=> B means A increases B
PRL = Prolactin, E = Estrogen, T = Testosterone, DHT = Dihydrotestosterone, LH = lutenizing hormone, FSH = follicle stimulating hormone, D = Dopamine, GnRH = Gonadotropin-releasing hormone, NO = nitric oxide

1. PRL- => D
2. D- => PRL

3. PRL-, E-, T-, DHT- => GnRH
4. GnRH+ => LH, FSH, requirements include manganese
5. LH+ => T
6. FSH+ => sperm
7. LH+, T+ => erections, requires NO from L-arginine.
8. T+, PRL+, LH+ => E, via aromatase. Converts the T into the E. AFAIK attempting this process makes the bulk of semen (sperm is less than 1/3 of it), whether inhibited or not. In fact I think inhibiting the process causes more repeat attempts, or else line 9 if able.
9. T+ => DHT. But it's often better to reduce DHT and increase T in other ways, b/c while DHT has very strong T effects, it doesn't do everything that T does and it has some negative effects. So it's a bad substitute for T unless you're desperate for T.
10. D+, T+, DHT+, LH+, PRL- => libido
Much of the last 2/3 requires zinc.

Viagra: reduced breakdown of NO so you retain it longer
Horny Goat Weed (with a lot of icariin): reduced breakdown of NO so you retain it longer, D
100:1 Tongkat ali extract: block PRL & E at step 3.
Ginseng+, mucana pruriens (5g-10g, or much less of an extract)+ => D
Catuaba: I think this is supposed to increase the mental effects of D, or one way or another it's good for libido. Doses vary quite a bit so look up what others have used and decide. Never go by what's on any capsule bottle since they'll usually say take 2 or some such regardless.
Saw Palmetto Extract: Inhibits line 9.
Aromatase inhibitors include button or portabella mushrooms (though it takes a lot), red clover, arimistane. For line 8.

A long time ago Moonstruck did large amounts of soy lecithin, red clover, saw palmetto, black cohosh and normal dose prilosec and provided a libido that was off the charts. I think prilosec increases PRL. That, red clover, SP and soy lecithin probably caused the huge loads. Semen is mostly water and lecithin. Needing relief from being so backed up may have helped with libido too.

RE: Herbal Viagra - Stevenator. - 18-05-2016

Another 1,000 miles over a 4-day span to visit the F.i.L. who's in final stages of his battle with cancer. I'll have to digest this over the next day, or so. Thank you all for the replies. I look fwd to learning from the suggestions.

RE: Herbal Viagra - Stevenator. - 18-05-2016

I ate a lot of oysters at the coast this weekend :-)
Came home & watered my vegetable garden & started snacking on the parsely bush. LoL.
I should have planted spearmint this year. Maybe next.