I don't think I'd mind anybody knowing at all for the short term because I really just want a small taste of it to see how I react. My original idea was to just try PM and achieve some small scale effects then from there determine if I want to carry on with it, but if that is enough to sterilize me for the rest of my life, I definitely should think it over some more. Thank you so much for your detailed response, it really means a lot!

If sterility is a concern to you, I think it would be best to hold off on pursuing NBE as it's certainly possible to grow breasts at a later age. Everybody reacts to pm differently, so it's uncertain when you would be reaching the point of no return in regards to infertility. As I said before, it's not the medical norm for males to grow breast tissue. Trying to accomplish this, even if only for a few months is not something I think should be taken lightly. I don't think playing Russian roulette with your reproductive system is a good idea. Like with the actual game, the probability of "winning" or surviving is fairly high. However most people would never want to play such a game due to the severe and permanent consequences of losing, no matter how unlikely it is in comparison to surviving the game. You probably won't lose your fertility in the short term, but do you really want to take that risk over something you feel uncertain about? While pursuing NBE may only be a for very brief amount of time in your life, being infertile will definitely have a lifelong and profound impact on you if you want to have your own children.

Also, I understand that PM seems to feminize not just the breasts, but also other parts of the body. I've looked and haven't really seen anything on any noticeable vocal changes. Does anybody know if it has any effect on your voice??

It's doubtful I think pm will have any effect on vocal cords. Once you've gone through puberty, the only ways I know of to feminize your voice is through surgery or voice therapy.

I think I'll have a try at it before seeing a therapist, but I will definitely aim for some mental effects just to see what it's like. Thanks for your input!

I have another warning for you. If you want to see what the mental effects are like, that sounds like you are hoping for an improvement?

I don't know how bad your dysphoria is, or even if you do feel dysphoric. However, some people with bad GD, like me, get so much relief from PM that they feel compelled to carry on with it. It's not so much a physical addiction, more a dependency addiction.

Have a look at this:
http://www.avitale.com/FAQ.htm

I've copied a few relevant sections below; as the doctor says, you'd better be prepared for the consequences!

B.



15. Is there a diagnostic test, for example, genetic testing, that will let one know if they are ..... transsexual ...?

No. there is no genetic test that can be administered to tell anyone what their sexuality is. That can only be done by honest self examination. Transsexualism, which has nothing to do with sexual preference, is different. We can't do a genetic test, but we can administer cross-sex hormones and see if the individual responds positively or negatively to them. That procedure is routinely done after the individual has had an extensive period of psychotherapy and is fully aware of the consequences. A negative reaction would result in extreme anxiety and discomfort. A positive reaction is one where the individual reports a calming affect. Often described as a feeling of well-being.


CATEGORY 6: HORMONES
1. I have heard that one of the uses of hormone replacement therapy is to see if the individual accepts or rejects the treatment. In your experience (or in other documented sources) where there was a rejection, what are the responses?

First of all, keep in mind that a referral for hormone replacement therapy is made with great caution. Individuals are not only evaluated for severity of gender variance but they are educated to the effect the hormones will have on them. Most of the people I see come in very aware of the effect HRT will have on their secondary sex characteristics but few are aware of the general health risks and the psychological effects they will experience. For example, I explain to all my clients MTF clients that paradoxically taking estrogen will diminish not only their libido, it will diminish their need to crossdress. I know that is counterintuitive but it is a fact.
I also warn them that getting on estrogen can result in a sense of well being that leads to a strong desire to continue taking it. They had better be prepared for that consequence. .....

15A. How long does it take, if at all, to determine a reaction from hormones?

There is ALWAYS a reaction to taking cross sex exogenous hormones. If the individual has a history of gender dysphoria or as I would prefer to call it, Gender Expression Deprivation Anxiety, the primary reaction is a relaxing one. That is the individual experiences feelings of well being as the anxiety is relieved. If a non gender dysphoric person is exposed to cross sex, exogenous hormones, the opposite occurs; a state of anxiety is induced that goes away once the hormones are no longer being taken. The time period for all of this to occur is very short, ranging from hours to no more then a few days.

The other, more physical changes take longer and are not easily reversable. If a genetic male takes estrogens, he will start to notice tenderness in his nipples in a matter of weeks as the first signs of breast development. The rest of the feminzation will gradually happen over the rest of the period he continues to take the hormones. Depending on the person's age and level of male development at the start of the process, it usually takes six to twelve months before the changes are so advanced that friends and acquaintances would notice and may start to inquiry about your appearance. Of course, a spouse or lover would notice much sooner.

If sterility is a concern to you, I think it would be best to hold off on pursuing NBE as it's certainly possible to grow breasts at a later age. Everybody reacts to pm differently, so it's uncertain when you would be reaching the point of no return in regards to infertility. As I said before, it's not the medical norm for males to grow breast tissue. Trying to accomplish this, even if only for a few months is not something I think should be taken lightly.

Honestly, I think I will hold of for a while or maybe mess with some weaker herbs? Or are those also likely to risk fertility? Thanks for the red flag though, you may have just really impacted my future

Misty, I'm just a singer and was wondering if taking PM alter my voice, I don't really have much care to pass as a woman really, it's all just for my personal approval thanks for the reference though, when I come to think of it, using tg voice training could really help me create some cool vocal tones in my music!

And byrony, there's really not any deep anxiety, there's just a lingering feeling that I want to explore more. I'm already quite calm with myself and the only anxiety I've had was just acknowledging the fact that this may just be something I want to pursue, which I've recently gotten over.

Thank you both for your input though, I realllly appreciate it. This community is really something else, you're all great!

If sterility is a concern to you, I think it would be best to hold off on pursuing NBE as it's certainly possible to grow breasts at a later age. Everybody reacts to pm differently, so it's uncertain when you would be reaching the point of no return in regards to infertility. As I said before, it's not the medical norm for males to grow breast tissue. Trying to accomplish this, even if only for a few months is not something I think should be taken lightly.

Honestly, I think I will hold of for a while or maybe mess with some weaker herbs? Or are those also likely to risk fertility? Thanks for the red flag though, you may have just really impacted my future

The way I see it, pursuing NBE and maintaining fertility are incompatible goals for males. The reason why most males don't develop breasts is because of their testosterone/estrogen ratio. In order to develop breasts, you have to change that ratio. Changing that ratio to develop breasts also puts yourself at a risk of impairing your fertility. The risk can range anywhere from minor to adverse, but it's still there. As a matter of principle, I think if you value your fertility you shouldn't be trying to grow breasts.

If you take weaker herbs and get little to no breast development, you'll probably won't have any real risk of losing your fertility. But then what's the point of taking NBE herbs if you won't get any real breast development? Also, I don't recall hearing about anyone experiencing brain rewiring from taking the weaker herbs. No matter what herbs you're taking, as soon as (or maybe earlier) you start developing breast tissue, you're rolling the dice with reducing or losing your fertility.

Rather than buying weaker herbs to grow breasts while trying to preserve your fertility, I suggest buying some breast forms instead. In the very least I think they can help you decide whether NBE is something you really want to do or not. I think after you have all the children you want would be a good time to evaluate whether NBE is still something you want to do.

And byrony, there's really not any deep anxiety, there's just a lingering feeling that I want to explore more. I'm already quite calm with myself and the only anxiety I've had was just acknowledging the fact that this may just be something I want to pursue, which I've recently gotten over.

Thank you both for your input though, I realllly appreciate it. This community is really something else, you're all great!

From what you've shared so far, it sounds to me like you don't have a concrete reason to pursue NBE, but you do have concerns about the consequences of NBE. With this in mind, I recommend doing self-exploration to learn more about yourself, but don't do anything permanent and potentially irreversible like NBE until you're certain it is what you want and you are okay with the consequences. I think seeing a therapist or joining a transgender support group are excellent ideas to explore these lingering feelings you have. Maybe in time you may realize NBE is something you really want to do, or maybe you might discover that NBE isn't right for you.

From what you've shared so far, it sounds to me like you don't have a concrete reason to pursue NBE, but you do have concerns about the consequences of NBE. With this in mind, I recommend doing self-exploration to learn more about yourself, but don't do anything permanent and potentially irreversible like NBE until you're certain it is what you want and you are okay with the consequences. I think seeing a therapist or joining a transgender support group are excellent ideas to explore these lingering feelings you have. Maybe in time you may realize NBE is something you really want to do, or maybe you might discover that NBE isn't right for you.

I think that's what I'm leading towards doing to be honest, I'll have to do a little more searching before I jump into anything. I really value your option and all the help you (and everybody else) have given me. I'm truly thankful!

Then there's me. I know I'm completely infertile. I don't ejaculate like a man anymore. However, I do go hard with the right stimulus and I do... ooze... a clear fluid as I'm orgasming. It doesn't really even take much, I have a higher libido as a woman than I ever had as a "man".

I'm also taking much more and much stronger things than most of the others here...

So... There are different things that can happen, depending just how female you actually are, if at all. If you're very much masculine and just "want" some elements of femininity for yourself... I imagine you'll go not only sterile, but probably cause erectile dysfunction.

If you're actually quite female in your wiring, you might be like me, you'll still go sterile, but you won't lose any function... Though it'll very definitely be a different experience, your libido may actually rise.

At least for me they've been two VERY different things.

Of course... I wish I could be rid of the nasty thing and have the proper equipment there instead, so I could actually experience the complete experience, but... that's still a LONG ways away.

LOL...ooze.

I would've went with "leak" instead. That word sounds way grosser than the process really is.

I know exactly what you mean though. I've always "leaked" ;p a clear fluid whenever I got turned on. Sometimes quite a bit. Always seemed pretty odd, didn't think guys were supposed to get "wet".

But yeah, I find the equipment to be rather gross on the whole as well, leaking or not ;p

Oddly enough I haven't had any reduction in size nor any problems getting erections, even taking large amounts of anti androgens. I'm sure some would like it...oh well. I think my thyroid is fucked up.