[GoneGirl]

I ran across this interesting post in Autostraddle Gender section:

Please Stop Saying That Trans Women Were “Born Boys”

I want to make a few things perfectly clear. Trans women are women. Period. End of story. We’re not “women who used to be men.” We’re not “men who identify as women.” We’re not “males who identify as women.” We’re not “men who became women.” WE ARE WOMEN. Stop putting qualifiers on our womanhood. It’s offensive, hurtful and cruel to insinuate otherwise. Our past, present, and futures are ours to define and no one else’s. Even if we didn’t figure out that we were trans until well into our adult lives, it absolutely does not mean that we were ever boys or men. Many trans women feel that they’ve always been girls, or at the very least, that they’ve never been boys. You don’t have any right to tell me, or any other trans person, that they were ever a particular gender, just as I have no right to tell you what gender you are. A trans woman who was obligated to present as male for most of her young life is was no more “born a man” than a lesbian who was obligated to date men for most of her young life “used to be straight.”

I agree with the author. When I was born, the attending physician took a hurried look and declared that I was a boy. 99 out of 100 times the doc got it right, but not that time. I was a girl, and I've had to live with the doctor's mistake for most of my life. So, when people say of me, "She was born a male, but identifies as female." I correct them: I was assigned male at birth, but I've always been female.

Clara

[GoneGirl]

I didn't consciously know that I was born a girl for a long time. I was the first child born to my parents, and naturally they raised me according to my assigned gender. Of course, they loved me very much and made me feel special. I gave no indication that I was unhappy being raised as a boy, but my mother told me much later, when I came out trans, that I was always a "gentle boy", not rough and aggressive like other boys.

When my sister was born, we became very close. She was what we call a 'tomboy'. She didn't like to play with dolls or dress up in pretty clothes. We were a lot alike in our play interests. The fact that she was a 'girl' and I a 'boy' didn't make a lot of difference to either of us, but as time went by it became clear that being the boy in the family carried with it certain privileges that my eventual four sisters didn't share.

Along with being 'the boy' in the family came a lot of expectations that I had to live up to. Showing my feminine side was not one of them, and so, I quickly learned to reject any expression of that. I couldn't allow myself the pleasure of being one of the girls as much as I would have liked.

I had no idea where these 'desires' stemmed from. Nobody talked about gender identity back then except to characterize feminine boys as 'sissies', 'pansies', and 'fruits' in an attempt to humiliate and stigmatize them. I quickly learned to hide any tendencies and interests that called into question my assigned gender. I learned to deny my true self, and strived to prove to others and to myself that I was worthy of their respect. I began to construct a visible persona that 'passed' as male to all who I came in contact with, and I carried this false identity into adulthood with all its baggage until just a couple of years ago.

But, now that I've peeled away layer upon layer of male facade so carefully built up over the decades, I realize how forced my life was all those years. I was in a constant battle against my true identity, as though I was swimming against a strong current trying to reach a shore that never got any closer. I paid a high price to pretend to be someone I wasn't.

When I came here to BreastNexus, I fell right in with the guys who wanted breasts, and with those who wanted to escape from dependence on pornography and masturbation which were destroying their lives. Little did I know that coming here would be the beginning of an understanding of who I really am and always was -- a woman, not only trapped in the wrong body, but saddled with a false projection of my very soul.

Gender identity is something that's given to each of us at birth. It can be denied, it can be hidden, or it can be embraced. It can never be ignored.

On my birthday a long time ago a doctor signed a document asserting that a boy had been born to a young married couple. He was mistaken. That document has since been corrected and officially filed at the Department of Vital Records in my home state. It now correctly states that I was born female. I was always a female. And I will die a female.

Clara

[WantAPair]

I ran across this interesting post in Autostraddle Gender section:

Please Stop Saying That Trans Women Were “Born Boys”

I want to make a few things perfectly clear. Trans women are women. Period. End of story. We’re not “women who used to be men.” We’re not “men who identify as women.” We’re not “males who identify as women.” We’re not “men who became women.” WE ARE WOMEN. Stop putting qualifiers on our womanhood. It’s offensive, hurtful and cruel to insinuate otherwise. Our past, present, and futures are ours to define and no one else’s. Even if we didn’t figure out that we were trans until well into our adult lives, it absolutely does not mean that we were ever boys or men. Many trans women feel that they’ve always been girls, or at the very least, that they’ve never been boys. You don’t have any right to tell me, or any other trans person, that they were ever a particular gender, just as I have no right to tell you what gender you are. A trans woman who was obligated to present as male for most of her young life is was no more “born a man” than a lesbian who was obligated to date men for most of her young life “used to be straight.”

I agree with the author. When I was born, the attending physician took a hurried look and declared that I was a boy. 99 out of 100 times the doc got it right, but not that time. I was a girl, and I've had to live with the doctor's mistake for most of my life. So, when people say of me, "She was born a male, but identifies as female." I correct them: I was assigned male at birth, but I've always been female.

Clara

Two points:
A: On one hand I complete understand the reason for this, but, on the other, IF (and I'm NOT questioning that they were born female) they choose to see themselves as female and not "used to be a guy", why do they feel they HAVE to tell any potential boyfriend they may have after becoming "fixed" (as my TS friend, Carla, puts it), that they used to be a guy? What's wrong, if they feel the way quoted above, with just being women, 100%, and if the baby question comes up, just say, "I can't have babies." instead of adding, "because I used to be a guy". And;
2: When you are born, the doctor pronounces that you have this genitalia or that. He has no more to go on than anyone else. Even you have no clue until you can reason that there ARE two genders and they try to force you to fit into the one that suits the item you have between your legs. In this day & age, it'd be best to let the kid choose. Let them have pink stuff AND blue stuff until they can figure which the want to gravitate to! My best friend/surrogate little sister, Kelly, told me a few months ago that her son who is now 8 years old, decided he wanted to wear nail polish and let his hair grow long. She said it's perfectly fine with her, but his father wouldn't approve at all!! She's painted his nails at least once since then! I haven't heard any more about since then.

[WantAPair]

I didn't consciously know that I was born a girl for a long time. I was the first child born to my parents, and naturally they raised me according to my assigned gender. Of course, they loved me very much and made me feel special. I gave no indication that I was unhappy being raised as a boy, but my mother told me much later, when I came out trans, that I was always a "gentle boy", not rough and aggressive like other boys.

When my sister was born, we became very close. She was what we call a 'tomboy'. She didn't like to play with dolls or dress up in pretty clothes. We were a lot alike in our play interests. The fact that she was a 'girl' and I a 'boy' didn't make a lot of difference to either of us, but as time went by it became clear that being the boy in the family carried with it certain privileges that my eventual four sisters didn't share.

Along with being 'the boy' in the family came a lot of expectations that I had to live up to. Showing my feminine side was not one of them, and so, I quickly learned to reject any expression of that. I couldn't allow myself the pleasure of being one of the girls as much as I would have liked.

I had no idea where these 'desires' stemmed from. Nobody talked about gender identity back then except to characterize feminine boys as 'sissies', 'pansies', and 'fruits' in an attempt to humiliate and stigmatize them. I quickly learned to hide any tendencies and interests that called into question my assigned gender. I learned to deny my true self, and strived to prove to others and to myself that I was worthy of their respect. I began to construct a visible persona that 'passed' as male to all who I came in contact with, and I carried this false identity into adulthood with all its baggage until just a couple of years ago.

But, now that I've peeled away layer upon layer of male facade so carefully built up over the decades, I realize how forced my life was all those years. I was in a constant battle against my true identity, as though I was swimming against a strong current trying to reach a shore that never got any closer. I paid a high price to pretend to be someone I wasn't.

When I came here to BreastNexus, I fell right in with the guys who wanted breasts, and with those who wanted to escape from dependence on pornography and masturbation which were destroying their lives. Little did I know that coming here would be the beginning of an understanding of who I really am and always was -- a woman, not only trapped in the wrong body, but saddled with a false projection of my very soul.

Gender identity is something that's given to each of us at birth. It can be denied, it can be hidden, or it can be embraced. It can never be ignored.

On my birthday a long time ago a doctor signed a document asserting that a boy had been born to a young married couple. He was mistaken. That document has since been corrected and officially filed at the Department of Vital Records in my home state. It now correctly states that I was born female. I was always a female. And I will die a female.

Clara

I was always a "gentle" kid, too. Other boys wanted to play football, army, have wrestling matches, fix cars, learn wood and metal shop; I didn't mind fixing the odd thing here & there, it showed intelligence, and I WAS a bit rough & tumble, but, mostly, I just wanted to play music and records, befriend animals and pretty much anybody else that I could. Casper the friendly ghost. That was me! I didn't want to play with dolls, but I didn't want to play football, either. I still can't stand it!!
I like porno and have no problem with it, except for a few aspects of modern porn that doesn't pertain to this thread, but, when I watch it, I'm the girl in the movie!! These days, and for the past 30-some years, I don't think I even CAN imagine myself being the guy!! I LOVE having sex with girls and I AM the man in that situation, any time it rarely ever happens, but, when I'm flying solo, I'm the girl!!

[b-rose]

why do they feel they HAVE to tell any potential boyfriend they may have after becoming "fixed" (as my TS friend, Carla, puts it), that they used to be a guy?

Being trans woman can be a dangerous life. It is almost impossible to hide your past and if a man finds out you are trans he may turn violent. There have been instances of husbands finding out their wife is a stealth TS and killing her.

So it is better to tell him early on and get rid of him if he cannot deal with a trans past. Tell him before he has committed himself to the relationship so it is easy for him to walk away. If transition is about anything, it is about honesty. To lie about your past is dishonest and just sets you up for a bigger fall later on.

Honesty is the best (and safest) policy.

[GoneGirl]

In an intimate or potentially intimate relationship, I think one has to be honest about their past. I wouldn't try to hide something so vital to the long term success of the relationship (not to mention the possible risks involved as b-rose points out).

My goal is to transition to blending into society as a woman, not as a trans woman. I'm realistic enough to know that will be impossible in anything more than a passing acquaintance with someone. My dream is that society in general will come to accept trans women as women first, transgender second, if at all. Again, I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but it's my hope for future generations.

I do find it VERY offense to have someone say, "You were born a male, and will always be a male!" They buy into the definition of 'male' as anyone with a Y chromosome. There's so much more that goes into establishing one's sex and gender than that.

Clara

[WantAPair]

why do they feel they HAVE to tell any potential boyfriend they may have after becoming "fixed" (as my TS friend, Carla, puts it), that they used to be a guy?

Being trans woman can be a dangerous life. It is almost impossible to hide your past and if a man finds out you are trans he may turn violent. There have been instances of husbands finding out their wife is a stealth TS and killing her.

So it is better to tell him early on and get rid of him if he cannot deal with a trans past. Tell him before he has committed himself to the relationship so it is easy for him to walk away. If transition is about anything, it is about honesty. To lie about your past is dishonest and just sets you up for a bigger fall later on.

Honesty is the best (and safest) policy.

Yeah, that's the part I can understand.

Or, you can at least find out up front with well placed questions or well-directed conversations how he feels about the subject long before a relationship stronger than friendship even gets started.

I would think that telling ANYBODY would be more dangerous! If you tell him up front and find out he's not TS-friendly, he's most likely to tell everyone he knows, who will tell everyone they know, etc.. Just imagine how many gay bashers will find out and try to find you and hurt/kill you. If you just do it stealth and find out he's not TS-friendly, just go your separate ways and you don't have to ever see him again and you never have to say a word to him about it and you aren't lying or being dishonest! You never told him you WEREN'T TS! You are a woman, he sees a woman, thinks you're a woman, and hat's what you're after anyway, isn't it? Game over, no harm done!

[GoneGirl]

Good point, Wap. If possible, that's the way to do it. The last thing you want is to broadcast to the world that you're a trans woman. Except for the tranny chasers out there, you become damaged goods.

Clara

[WantAPair]

I do find it VERY offense to have someone say, "You were born a male, and will always be a male!" They buy into the definition of 'male' as anyone with a Y chromosome. There's so much more that goes into establishing one's sex and gender than that.

Clara

Yeah, those boneheads really chap MY ass, too!! Like it has ANY bearing at ALL on THEM or THEIR lives!!!

[WantAPair]

Good point, Wap. If possible, that's the way to do it. The last thing you want is to broadcast to the world that you're a trans woman. Except for the tranny chasers out there, you become damaged goods.

Clara

I'm not at all into lying to anyone, but, in the first place, you're NOT lying, you're just not telling everything and, secondly, I just think it'd be the safest way to go.

This MIGHT not relate, but it's in the same ballpark. Back in the late `80's, this girl, Wendy, moved into the house where my singer and bass player lived and where we rehearsed (and recorded most of our first album). Apparently, from what I was told at least a decade later, she was pregnant, but I didn't know that back then! Now, she was kinda cute, but I was in NO way hitting on her!! Well, I was told that she was 16, but she was really a few years older! The band TOLD me she was 16 so I wouldn't try to hit on her, which I think was pretty strange, because I WASN'T hitting on her or very much interested in doing so! Besides, my guitarist, Jason, was the "have dick: will travel" type!! If she needed protection from ANYONE, it should've been HIM! It wasn't until some time in the past 10 years that I found out they were protecting her from ME by lying to me about her age and not telling me she was pregnant!
Lol. NOW I don't remember where I was going with this!! :-/ I know it had SOMETHING to do with lying or not telling the truth. If I think of it later, I'll let ya know. sorry.

Addendum: The last time I saw Wendy at a gig was about 17 or 18 years ago. As soon as I walked into the room, she jumped up, screamed my name and ran across the room with her arms out, jumped over to me and wrapped her arms AND legs around me and gave me a big kiss like I was her newly found long-lost boyfriend!! Lol. I have NO idea what that was about, but it was a pretty nice welcome!!