[Pansy-Mae]

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm (the foetal development theory)

I think most people here fit into Group 3 (G3) in the latter paper - I know that I do.

Whilst I agree that probably most of us fit into G3, it seems to me that the classification is too wide and she has ignored her own statement that there is a broad variation "... the affected individual may be left with somewhere between a partial and a full sense of having a cross-sexed gender identity. Essentially creating a not-male, not-female but otherwise permanent gender variant condition.... there apparently are some individuals who fall very close to or dead-center on the gender identity spectrum,..."
I understand and accept that you ( Bryony) feel that you are TS but choose not to transition, but there are several of us here who are actually in that middle ground and can contentedly simply exist there. However, for me, and I suspect others, it is comforting to understand why!

[bryony]

Hi P,

I'm not sure what the difference is. With PM, I'm contented too. However, you yourself have said that when you go off PM, the desire to cross-dress returns. What if you came off PM and denied yourself the cross-dressing for an extended period of time? Have you ever done this? I'd be interested to know the result.

The full name of what Vitale refers to is "Gender Expression Anxiety"; you've never really had a problem expressing your feminity have you? I think you once mentioned being an active participant in the TV scene, or do I have that wrong?

The thing is, I am coming to the conclusion that my anxiety symptoms were caused by the inability in my situation to express my internal gender via clothing, and this manifested as "true" anxiety. You on the other hand have been using cross-dressing for a long time and it was only after taking PM you ceased to feel the need to do so.

I think the only difference between me and the other "middle-grounders" is that I have not been in a position to cross dress for some decades now.

Anyway - not really worth arguing about... I think our relative positions are of a marginal interpretation! I'm not a quibbler... (honest! )


B.

PS I forgot to say, I don't swallow everything Vitale says hook line and sinker. It's just after treating 450 sufferers, she's got a bit more experience than me..

[Pansy-Mae]

Hi P,

I'm not sure what the difference is.

Well, my interpretation is that I have no desire to go 'all the way', I truly am in the middle. Whereas, I think ( and I apologise if I've misunderstood) that you've indicated that it is your love/concern etc for your wife/family that makes that a no-no for you.

With PM, I'm contented too. However, you yourself have said that when you go off PM, the desire to cross-dress returns. What if you came off PM and denied yourself the cross-dressing for an extended period of time? Have you ever done this? I'd be interested to know the result.

No I haven't done that as such, although there have been 2 or 3 previous occasions when I stopped dressing for extended periods of time ( as much as 7 years), and truly thought the need had gone completely. Those times were always as a result of intense personal emotional stress which somehow seems to have overridden whatever else is there.

The full name of what Vitale refers to is "Gender Expression Anxiety"; you've never really had a problem expressing your feminity have you?

That could be read two ways, so to give you both answers: I've never had a problem internally with who/what I am, but I have always been dead scared of others finding out.

I think you once mentioned being an active participant in the TV scene, or do I have that wrong?

I was, but many years ago ( at least 18 or 19 ). Since it came back about 18 months ago, I've been out dressed twice and that was about 15 months ago.

The thing is, I am coming to the conclusion that my anxiety symptoms were caused by the inability in my situation to express my internal gender via clothing, and this manifested as "true" anxiety. You on the other hand have been using cross-dressing for a long time and it was only after taking PM you ceased to feel the need to do so.

I think I see where you are coming from, but I'm not entirely convinced it is the same thing. Yes, for me the dressing was, I'm sure, the way that I expressed my feminine side, and taking the opportunity to grow boobs was just an extension of that. However the phyto-hormones have apparently now balanced out the natural imbalance in my body-brain and I'm fine with it. If I take too much PM, aside from the headaches etc, I also don't feel right and get the "Why am I doing this?" feelings which make me stop taking it for a day or two, then I get the panics about losing growth and start again at a lower dose. If I just stop, then I get the panics anyway! So I really am balanced in the middle.

I think the only difference between me and the other "middle-grounders" is that I have not been in a position to cross dress for some decades now.

Anyway - not really worth arguing about... I think our relative positions are of a marginal interpretation! I'm not a quibbler... (honest! )

Well, that comes back to whether you would go all the way if there were no other personal restrictions? ... and I'm not quibbling either, I think this is a fascinating area for a sensible discussion.

PS I forgot to say, I don't swallow everything Vitale says hook line and sinker. It's just after treating 450 sufferers, she's got a bit more experience than me..

I think that what she says makes a great deal of sense, but she simply doesnt include the middle of the roaders in that paper, other than mentioning the existence.
I guess because she doesnt come across them in her work.

[bryony]

Hi P,

I'm not sure what the difference is.

Well, my interpretation is that I have no desire to go 'all the way', I truly am in the middle. Whereas, I think ( and I apologise if I've misunderstood) that you've indicated that it is your love/concern etc for your wife/family that makes that a no-no for you.

Primarily, true, but I've also said quite a bit (though there's no reason why you should remember) that the other factors are age and passability. I would have no interest in being an ugly old man masquerading badly as a female. I'm also governed by aesthetics!

On the other hand, if you had been born more recently, and your parents , having noticed your predilections pre-adolescence, offered you the chance to delay puberty to make up your mind about what you would prefer to be, can you honestly say that you would have reached your current age as a male?

With PM, I'm contented too. However, you yourself have said that when you go off PM, the desire to cross-dress returns. What if you came off PM and denied yourself the cross-dressing for an extended period of time? Have you ever done this? I'd be interested to know the result.

No I haven't done that as such, although there have been 2 or 3 previous occasions when I stopped dressing for extended periods of time ( as much as 7 years), and truly thought the need had gone completely. Those times were always as a result of intense personal emotional stress which somehow seems to have overridden whatever else is there.

So really, it's an unknown, as the stress you experienced, as you say, would have made the gender anxiety invisible. Well, in that case, you may find, as I did, that not being able to express your gender via dressing or ingesting estrogen that you would start to develop the same kind of depressive anxiety that I have had.

The full name of what Vitale refers to is "Gender Expression Anxiety"; you've never really had a problem expressing your feminity have you?

That could be read two ways, so to give you both answers: I've never had a problem internally with who/what I am, but I have always been dead scared of others finding out.

I meant the opportunity to dress either at home or elsewhere... though you do by your reply seem to fit the G3 description somewhat (as do I).

The thing is, I am coming to the conclusion that my anxiety symptoms were caused by the inability in my situation to express my internal gender via clothing, and this manifested as "true" anxiety. You on the other hand have been using cross-dressing for a long time and it was only after taking PM you ceased to feel the need to do so.

I think I see where you are coming from, but I'm not entirely convinced it is the same thing. Yes, for me the dressing was, I'm sure, the way that I expressed my feminine side, and taking the opportunity to grow boobs was just an extension of that. However the phyto-hormones have apparently now balanced out the natural imbalance in my body-brain and I'm fine with it. If I take too much PM, aside from the headaches etc, I also don't feel right and get the "Why am I doing this?" feelings which make me stop taking it for a day or two, then I get the panics about losing growth and start again at a lower dose. If I just stop, then I get the panics anyway! So I really am balanced in the middle.

But that's the exactly the same thing!

I think we are getting hung up on terminology here. You seem to take the label TS as someone who would normally move on to transition, whereas I am taking as the congenital brain disorder caused by insufficient androgen exposure at the foetal stage, which I think you agree that you also suffer from. The evidence is your ability to ingest estrogen without ill effects.

I suspect you prefer the label TG to indicate someone who is in the "middle" partial transition area and content to stay there, is that so?

It's just a problem with labels. I really don't think there is a difference between us, apart from the mental problems that I have had.

I think the only difference between me and the other "middle-grounders" is that I have not been in a position to cross dress for some decades now.

Anyway - not really worth arguing about... I think our relative positions are of a marginal interpretation! I'm not a quibbler... (honest! )

Well, that comes back to whether you would go all the way if there were no other personal restrictions? ... and I'm not quibbling either, I think this is a fascinating area for a sensible discussion.

Only if I looked like this:
Andrej Pejic

Or had been the lucky one here:
transgender twin

Otherwise it's a pipe dream!

All the best,

B.

[vmiku914]

Well this may be useful as supports earlier thread and is it Catch 22 ?

Now that my T levels have dropped , I am starting now and again too wonder why I am doing this ?

Some days wish too and some not,

However what I do know is that if I do not take any estrogen suplement s, my T level goes through the roof and makes me want to be GIRLY,

So cannot seem to win now either way,

Conclusion, I have too take some T level dampers ???

This rather blows away the theory by Chrissie as said many many times on here , there are true trans sexuals and also many who are indeed

"partial trans sexuals" think the below supports this and indeed it seems the partials are a rarer breed,

I think I have an explanation for mine (partly female brain), I was a very very premature baby,

Julie




T-Note 15
Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals? Some thoughts.

Anne Vitale Ph.D.
March 21, 2009


Long before I saw my first case involving a Male-To-Female (MTF) transsexual who decided to take testosterone in order to return to living her life in the male gender role (more about that below), I became suspicious of testosterone being the hormone that causes gender dysphoria in some genetic males. Obviously this is not true for the vast majority of males, they do just fine on normal levels of testosterone (300-999 ng/dl). However, a subset of genetic males appear to respond to testosterone in a manor that evokes an overwhelming desire to express feelings of femininity. I know that sounds counterintuitive but hear me out.

When we take into account that all parinatal males experience defeminization of the brain (Wallen and Baum (2002), thereby leaving them incapable of female behavior and sensibility, by testosterone that is converted to estradiol by a process of aromatase, it is not too hard to imagine, that for some reason, yet to become clear to science, that that process could easily have been disrupted leading to incomplete masculinization of some male brains. In addition, to account for the periodic need to cross dress in certain males, I predict that eventually we will find that as testosterone levels rise above some threshold in the daily lives of these males (Ahokoski et al 1998), that the enzyme aromatase becomes active and temporarily converts testosterone into estradiol forcing a strong desire to dress and live, even if only temporarily, as a woman.

Here are some observations:

It is well known that the body works very hard to maintain hormonal homeostasis. Both sexes naturally produce both androgenic and estrogenic compounds. Males produce levels of androgens, primarily from the testes, significantly high enough to not only maintain male secondary sex characteristics and male demeanor but also to limit the effect endogenous estrogens, also produced from the testes, from inducing feminizing effects on their body. The opposite is true for genetic females. Females produce sufficiently high levels of estrogens, primarily from the ovaries, to not only maintain their female secondary characteristics but to also limit any masculinizing effect the low levels of endogenous testosterone produced in the adrenals may have on their body. Essentially masculine homeostasis in males is maintained by a ÒbalancedÓ high testosterone to low estradiol ratio and feminine homeostasis in genetic females is maintained by a ÒbalancedÓ high estradiol to androgens ratio. This A/E relationship is dynamic over the life span. As estrogen levels decrease (women experiencing menopause), testosterone levels automatically increase to maintain homeostasis. The opposite is true, when testosterone levels in older males decrease, estrogen levels automatically increase in response. The result is softer skin and minor breast development.

What is significant about this paradigm is that the androgen/estrogen hormonal relationship can be manipulated artificially. With the exogenous administration of cross sex hormones, the A/E ratio can be completely reversed leading to significant physical and emotional alteration to an individualÕs appearance and demeanor.

*******

It is well known that large doses of exogenous estrogens administered to some genetic males, dramatically reduces the anxiety of gender dysphoria. The same outcome is true when gender dysphoric genetic females take testosterone. (i.e. Testosterone increases-->Estrogen decreases = feelings of well being). In this later case, it is reasonable to believe that what would otherwise be normal levels of estrogen in most women, can have an anxiety invoking effect in others.

*******

It is also known that the administration of cross sex hormones MUST be maintained to sustain the anxiolytic effect. It is not unusual for some patients, feeling better after starting hormones, to believe they are cured and no longer need to continue the medication. Unfortunately what they experience is a quick return of their gender dysphoria. If there is any physical test to determine who should seriously consider partial or full transition, taking cross sex hormones is it.

*******

Case study 1.: In 2005 a genetic male who had transitioned to the female gender role (Sex Reassignment Surgery in the mid 1980s) and had been living happily--or at least contently--as a woman for 20 years, presented to me with relationship issues. What is significant about this case is that the individual made the appointment using her legal female name (S.) but presented as an individual with a male appearance and a subdued but obvious male demeanor.

On further discovery, it was learned that two years earlier, while S. was still living in the female gender role, she met a woman and fell in love. They started dating and eventually cohabiting. As is common with most MTFs, her libido was low to nonexistent. To please her girlfriend, she returned to the doctor who originally prescribed her estrogen, and asked to be put on testosterone to increase her libido.

However, along with the increase in libido, the testosterone caused a re-masculinization of her body. To complicate matters, the girlfriend not only enjoyed her partner's increased libido, she also enjoyed the masculinization and encouraged S. to take increasingly massive doses of testosterone. In time S. had in effect retransitioned back to looking and presenting as a male.

To S's surprise, a strong unrelenting desire to be a woman rerurned to pre-transition levels. Still owning a large female wardrobe, she started to cross dress to relieve the anxiety. The problem now was that the girl friend was upset over seeing her, now male looking lover, wearing women's clothes and was threatening to leave her unless she stopped. Totally distraught over her situation, S. came to me in the hope that I could help to save the relationship. In the end S. realized that in order to find peace, she needed to give up the relationship, stop taking the testosterone and resumed an estrogen regimen. She is now happily--or at least contently--once again living in the female gender role.

Case Study 2.: In a similar vein, I recently received an email message from a genetic male who had transitioned, complete with SRS, to living in the female gender role in the early 1980s. Over the last several years the individual, expressing regret for having transitioned, reported that he had been very active over the internet as an anti-transition advocate. Having read my previous report on what role I believe testosterone plays in exciting feelings of feminity in some males, he contacted me telling me that in an attempt to remasculinize, he made three attempts at taking testosterone, all with the same result. Puzzled by it all, he writes:

"That's the third time I've taken testosterone and every time I've had overwhelming desires to present myself as a female."

*******

Another factor to consider is the oft reported unrelenting, persistent nature of untreated gender dysphoria chronic across the entire life span. In order for that to be, there must be an ongoing, disconnect between androgen/estrogen levels produced by the body and what receptors in the brain have been wired to expect. Evidence of sexual differentiation of the brain has been documented by research. Here I copy, in full, a passage from my essay "Current Thinking Regarding the Etiology of Gender Dysphoria" written in 2002

"Zhou J.-N, et al. (1997) examined the volume of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), and found that a female-sized BSTc was found in male-to-female transsexuals. This led them to declare that a female brain structure exists in genetically male transsexuals, supporting the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones".

In a follow-up study KRUIJVER et al. (2000) wanted to know if the reported difference according to gender identity in the central part of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) was based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or a reflection of a difference in vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation from the amygdala. To do this they looked at 42 subjects to determine the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. They found that regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women. The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females, while the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. They go on to declare that

" findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.Ó

Conclusions: It is beyond dispute that there are both androgen and estrogen receptors in the brain. Genetic males normally have more active androgen receptors than women and women have more active estrogen receptors then men. That this ÒnormalÓ distribution of estrogen and androgen receptor cells can be different in some individuals appears to be a possibility. It therefore follows that androgenic and estrogenic compounds will result in a modified-to-counter expected behavior in affected individuals. For reasons beyond the scope of this Note and as counterintuitive as it may seem, it can only be assumed that testosterone plays a crucial role in forcing certain male individuals to crossdress and experience femininity to the maximum degree possibly.

References:

Kruijver, Frank P. M., Zhou Jiang-Ning, Pool Chris W., Hofman Michel A., Gooren Louis J. G. and Swaab Dick F. (2000), Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus, J Clin Endocrinol Metab 85: 2034&endash;2041.

Vitale A., (2002), Current Thinking Regarding the Etiology of Gender Dysphoria http://www.avitale.com/etiologicalreview.htm

Zhou J.-N, Hofman M.A, Gooren L.J, Swaab D.F (1997), A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality, Int J Transgenderism 1,1, http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm.

Handa R. J., Andersen M.E., Teeguarden J, and Conolly R. B. ( 2005), Non-Linear Dose Response Relationships for Developmental Responses: An Example with Defeminization by Estrogenic Xenobiotics Colorado State University; CIIT Centers for Health Research; Environ Corporation.

Wallen K. and Baum M.J. (2002), Masculinization and Defeminization in Altricial and Precocial Mammals: Comparative Aspects of Steroid Hormone Action. Hormones Brain and Behavior Volume four.

Ahokoski O; Virtanen A; Huupponen R; Scheinin H; Salminen E; Kairisto V; Irjala K (1998) Biological day-to-day variation and daytime changes of testosterone, follitropin, lutropin and oestradiol-17beta in healthy men. Clin Chem Lab Med. 1998; 36(7):485-91 (ISSN: 1434-6621)

Copyright 2009 Anne Vitale Ph.D. All Rights reserved.
Disclaimer: Nothing on this site should be viewed as providing therapeutic advice. No formation of a client/therapist relationship with Dr. Vitale is intended or to be implied or inferred. The information provided in this site is for educational purposes only. I attempt to keep the information current but make no representation or warranties in that regard. You should not rely upon this information as a substitute for consul with a qualified mental health professional.

OMG, I cried when I read this. It explained what I felt (about feeling the need to go more fem when high on T. However, when low on T I didn't feel like I was making a mistake). I honestly though I was going insane and I was the only one.

I also done my COGIATI and my score is 370

I am glad to start finding answers.

[SarahSchilling]

I scored 180 on the cogati before starting NBE herbs, I'll take it again in a month or so...not sure my score will change much though.

Also, my index finger is longer than my ring one.

Not that I put a whole lot of weight on either one. Not being able to climax without relying on mental gymnastics to be the woman, or secretly dressing in women's clothing are all the proof I needed. Setting aside how much better I feel after taking PM for a few weeks.

Still very interesting reading, thanks for the links bryony.

[Pansy-Mae]

Primarily, true, but I've also said quite a bit (though there's no reason why you should remember) that the other factors are age and passability. I would have no interest in being an ugly old man masquerading badly as a female. I'm also governed by aesthetics!

Yes I do remember you saying that and I 100% agree. I always said that I would give up being a TV(!) before I turned into a sad old queen living in the past.

On the other hand, if you had been born more recently, and your parents , having noticed your predilections pre-adolescence, offered you the chance to delay puberty to make up your mind about what you would prefer to be, can you honestly say that you would have reached your current age as a male?

Good question. My interest in feminine things appears to have started when I was about 3 or 4, if my mothers stories are to be believed. I started wearing her and my sisters clothes in secret when I was about 12-ish. I was brought up in a very religious family and I remember praying most nights that I would wake up as a girl in the morning. By the time I reached my early 20's I had sufficient knowledge to know that it would be possible to go the full GRS route and I knew that I had no need/desire to put myself through that and convert to the external appearance of female. Because for me that is the actual effect - GRS converts the appearance, it does not create a female and I am NOT internally female.( although if there was a miracle available to actually make me female I would have taken it, and still would).
So to answer your question, in the malestrom of puberty, I might have taken up the option but it would have been a mistake which I would probably regret for the rest of my life.

So really, it's an unknown, as the stress you experienced, as you say, would have made the gender anxiety invisible. Well, in that case, you may find, as I did, that not being able to express your gender via dressing or ingesting estrogen that you would start to develop the same kind of depressive anxiety that I have had.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with that at all.

I think we are getting hung up on terminology here. You seem to take the label TS as someone who would normally move on to transition, whereas I am taking as the congenital brain disorder caused by insufficient androgen exposure at the foetal stage, which I think you agree that you also suffer from. The evidence is your ability to ingest estrogen without ill effects.

I suspect you prefer the label TG to indicate someone who is in the "middle" partial transition area and content to stay there, is that so?

It's just a problem with labels. I really don't think there is a difference between us, apart from the mental problems that I have had.

Yes, thats true, but you are still missing what I see to be a vital difference and that is why I am using the TS and TG labels, because I still maintain that the G3 classification is too broad. Sure, it is a continuum so any sub-division will create an artificial boundary but at the same time, if you take away all external constraints there are some within G3 who do not wish to ever make a complete transition and some who can't wait ( and some who would like to go the whole way but are using their rational minds to over-ride their natural inclinations?). I neither want nor need to make the full transition. There is nothing in my life right now to stop me going to the doctor this morning and ask to be referred but nothing is further from my thoughts despite the baby boobs on my chest. I wish I had been born a woman, sure, but I know I am not and never can be.

I think the only difference between me and the other "middle-grounders" is that I have not been in a position to cross dress for some decades now.



Well, that comes back to whether you would go all the way if there were no other personal restrictions? ... and I'm not quibbling either, I think this is a fascinating area for a sensible discussion.

But to ask you the same question that you asked me above, "Would you have taken the opportunity if available back in your teens, when you were footloose, fancy free and assumed you would stay good looking for ever!?"

[bryony]

So to answer your question, in the malestrom of puberty, I might have taken up the option but it would have been a mistake which I would probably regret for the rest of my life.

Hmm... that is with hindsight... you don't really know how things would have turned out if you had gone through female adolescence, secondary education, peer group involvement, all the things that add the "nurture" to "nature" which make a girl feel part of her gender-culture. It would, in hindsight, have been a mistake for me, because I would not have had the joy of my family, but without that foreknowledge, who knows?

Yes, thats true, but you are still missing what I see to be a vital difference and that is why I am using the TS and TG labels, because I still maintain that the G3 classification is too broad. Sure, it is a continuum so any sub-division will create an artificial boundary but at the same time, if you take away all external constraints there are some within G3 who do not wish to ever make a complete transition and some who can't wait ( and some who would like to go the whole way but are using their rational minds to over-ride their natural inclinations?). I neither want nor need to make the full transition.

Agreed entirely. All broad categorisations are going to have that problem. I think I've quoted Vitale elsewhere saying that many people stick with partial transitions (e.g. breasts only) mainly because they fear surgery.

She does seem quite attached to the full transition route though - and I think this is mainly because she is part of the orthodoxy. Like you, I disagree with this, so again we aren't so different.

That last bit in parentheses isn't me by the way. I'm perfectly happy with a penis! I think the "she-male" or "T-girl" condition is ideal for someone who prefers women to men! (There's a reason why "heretic" appears under my name!), and I think society is coming around to accepting this. It makes little sense to allow civil partnerships between women but not to allow a trans-woman to keep her penis. (Perversity upon perversity? )

There is nothing in my life right now to stop me going to the doctor this morning and ask to be referred but nothing is further from my thoughts despite the baby boobs on my chest. I wish I had been born a woman, sure, but I know I am not and never can be.

Again, me too. (But surely when you say "nothing" that would be disregarding your wife?)

But to ask you the same question that you asked me above, "Would you have taken the opportunity if available back in your teens, when you were footloose, fancy free and assumed you would stay good looking for ever!?"

I don't know about teens, but if I had been an only child without jeering brothers, and non-dysfunctional, sensitive parents who told me about my choices, I may well have elected to delay puberty. As I indicated above, I think your feeling about whether you would have regretted it is debatable; I may well have, but it's really too difficult to tell.

I'm still of the opinion that we are dancing around a knife edge of differences !

B.

PS Further thoughts, added later:

I remembered hearing about Kate Craig-Wood on the radio, so looked her up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/576...woman.html

http://kate.craig-wood.com/album.php?page=me

Interesting how she left her wife to transition (luckily no kids) yet is not successful with men, and has wound up with a woman!

Classic example of why facial fem. surgery should be available on the NHS and offered as an alternative to the (much more dangerous) GRS.

I would much rather be a shemale looking like Kate than someone with a vagina looking like this: Grayson Perry

So I have to say, all things being equal, my preferred option would be to be 25, with my wife and penis, living as someone looking like Kate Craig-Wood. (I hope that clarifies matters )

[Pansy-Mae]

I think the "she-male" or "T-girl" condition is ideal for someone who prefers women to men!

I've always been attracted to 'feminine' women, never men, and often thought that the expression " male lesbian" might be the best label for my sexuality!

Again, me too. (But surely when you say "nothing" that would be disregarding your wife?)

Absolutely NOT ignoring her. I discuss everything with her and she has already indicated that she would do everything to assist if that was what I need to feel fulfilled ( it isn't).

[bryony]

Cherish!


B.