[joniec19]

Would anyone know of any health concerns while taking PM?

Thanks

[dargona]

So far, the only known health related issues are headaches due to estrogen intake -- aside from that: breast growth, softer skin, feminization, healthier hair.

There was a standard lab test done on a rat(s) and they weren't able to find a lethal dosage.

[bryony]

Would anyone know of any health concerns while taking PM?

Thanks

I have a broad yellow streak, so I had to be sure it was pretty safe.

It's a root vegetable consumed by the N. Thai people for many many years.

That said, too many carrots will kill you!

If you go to google scholar and search for pueraria mirifica and toxicity, that may reassure you.

My only worry is it can make people who thought they would be happy with breasts, and who have a fulfilling penetrative sexual relationship, want to go for full gender reassignment. A mental health risk, if you will!

B.

[jonie]

Thanks

[chrishoney]

Would anyone know of any health concerns while taking PM?

Thanks

My only worry is it can make people who thought they would be happy with breasts, and who have a fulfilling penetrative sexual relationship, want to go for full gender reassignment. A mental health risk, if you will!

B.

Ok, this is my pet peeve, but I find this OFTEN repeated guess very misleading. I don't think PM "makes" people think or believe ANYTHING that isn't/wasn't already within them to begin with. It is misleading in the extreme to keep repeating this when it is merely one person's personal bias against late transitioning MtF transexuals.

I am not going to get into a fight with you about your views or my opinions, but I for one wish you would stop spouting this nonsense as if it were fact. PM, nor any other substance one can ingest, cannot make you do or become something against your will. Even taking estrogen won't "make" you transition, so how can a phytoestrogen? Please stop spreading falsehoods.

[bryony]

Would anyone know of any health concerns while taking PM?

Thanks

My only worry is it can make people who thought they would be happy with breasts, and who have a fulfilling penetrative sexual relationship, want to go for full gender reassignment. A mental health risk, if you will!

B.

Ok, this is my pet peeve, but I find this OFTEN repeated guess very misleading. I don't think PM "makes" people think or believe ANYTHING that isn't/wasn't already within them to begin with.

You don't "think"? So that negates my opinions? Sorry, are you the arbiter of correctness?

It is misleading in the extreme to keep repeating this when it is merely one person's personal bias against late transitioning MtF transexuals.

My "bias" (such a provocative word), is against people who have been happily using their penises with a woman for decades, to satisfy them and produce children, suddenly becoming "disgusted" with them. The only way that is going to happen is by altering the conditions under which they were happy with them, either by altering their mental state, erection capability or both.

I am not going to get into a fight with you about your views or my opinions,

Too late for that, I'm afraid.

but I for one wish you would stop spouting this nonsense as if it were fact. PM, nor any other substance one can ingest, cannot make you do or become something against your will. Even taking estrogen won't "make" you transition, so how can a phytoestrogen? Please stop spreading falsehoods.

I've never read such a pompous diatribe in my life. How many people have committed suicide or murdered while under the influence of a mind-altering drug?

I know for a fact that PM is a mind altering drug!

The only reason that I am still taking it, with breasts growing every day, probably larger than I ever wanted, is because it has cured my sub-clinical depression. That, I am afraid, is mind-altering.

You may call it a guess, but I'm only repeating what I have seen happen on this very board.

You can use this board's own search system to go through the postings of user beverley.rose. Read them all in chronological order. I also have personal messages with additional evidence that I have been asked not to share.

I'm accepting what she said in good faith. If you have a problem with falsehoods, you have them with Beverley, not me.

If you want me to take the trouble to sift through them and give dates and quotes I will, but I do find the whole thing rather painful.

As for "spreading falsehoods", you seem to be taking it upon yourself to be the arbiter of truth and false, when, to be fair, you are simply stating your opinion.

As a medium-term user of PM at a fairly high dose, I am well aware of the way that it suppresses the male drive. Without the regular stimulation of erection and the resultant concentration of sexual satisfaction by breast stimulation, I don't find it hard at all to imagine a scenario where, if I did not have a valued marital sexual relationship, I would be happy to have my internal organs reorganised to be more like a woman. That's one of the reasons why I take Butea Superba and breaks from PM - because I recognise the dangers in myself!

I really don't think you are speaking from any kind of recognisable experience, or, if you are, you prefer to keep it to yourself while tramping on those of others. I have seen you state elsewhere that you are divorced.

Whatever your opinions are on "late transitioning MtF transexuals" they are very likely coloured by the fact that you have no "skin in the game".

Thus, I really don't think you are best placed to speak from experience or empathy.

If you don't like what I say, fine, I'm happy with that, but I'm not happy with ad-hom attacks.

Unless you can prove what you say, your opinion is no better than mine, I'm sorry to say.


My concern, as ever, is for the GG. The wife who has sacrificed the normality of the relationship for the mental well-being of her husband, and the loss of a heterosexual physical relationship driven by what is essentially a whim, given that all forms of transition are a masquerade of sorts. I'm not going to repeat what I said before, but the late genital transition of a married father is to me the supreme act of selfishness and misogyny, and I strongly believe that this desire is accelerated by ingestion of estrogen and estrogen-mimics.

If you want to call that a bias, then fine. BUT, it is a bias formed by empirical observation, NOT bigotry or prejudice.

My perception is that most of the people on this board are people with wives/partners, and many if not most have used their penises quite effectively in the past to have children.

My overwhelming concern is that in their compulsive desire, which I well understand, to feminise as much as possible, they neglect the partner who has supported them thus far.

I don't believe that I am doing the wrong thing in alerting them to the dangers of destroying that relationship. Possibly as the victim of a failed relationship, you are allowing your cynicism to colour what I am attempting to do. "Misery loves company" perhaps?

Since there are no experts on here (I know you have some kind of medical degree, but I have no idea if that makes you an expert), people are asking for opinions. I find it rather tiring to precede everything I say with "in my opinion", but if it will make you happy, then I will say that this is my opinion, but I happen to feel that it is a valid opinion until you can utterly disprove it.

I am trying to do the best I can for the women as well as the men; it often seems that men who want to become women care less about real women than they do about themselves.

My "warnings", such as they are will be largely ignored by m2Fs without partners who are likely to suffer. I don't see why you should disparage my attempts to help the others.

Try to avoid being a troll, eh?

B.

[sfem]

Byrony, you have stated your view on this before. I don't think anyone is confused about your opinion on this. There are opposing opinions. I'm not sure why you feel you have to come out swinging at anyone who disagrees, but perhaps that is worth some introspection. I will say that I don't think that kind of posting is beneficial to the forum community. Disagree if you wish, but leave the evaluations of other people out of it please. I really hope chrishoney sticks to their stated intention of not getting into a fight. Saying too late, you're fighting me now whether you like it or not is just inflammatory.
Depression is very possibly affected by PM, like it is by many things you can ingest (e.g. sugar), inject (e.g. meds), or apply (e.g. herbals or meds). That doesn't mean PM is mind-altering in the sense you are suggesting, that it can forcibly change your behaviour. Your behaviour is also derived from a very complex process, a very significant part of which is conscious thought and self-evaluation. Unless you're saying that you believe PM somehow renders you unable to think, then your position is untenable to my way of thinking. It is simply one more factor influencing your decisions. It isn't making decisions for you. My tendonitis affects my ability to shovel snow. But it doesn't decide if I will do it or not. As an influencing factor, I know it changes my predispositions when I am on it, but I don't believe it makes me do or not do anything on it's own. I have always been in charge of myself in that regard. I do not accept your statement that I am at risk of losing control of myself because of PM.
To the original post question, the only health concern I have experienced is I get nasty headaches if I take too much PM (for me that's 3000mg/day) and others have reported this symptom in the past on this forum and others. At my normal dose of 500-1000mg/day, I have no health concerns, and still make all my own choices about how to live.

[bryony]

Byrony, you have stated your view on this before. I don't think anyone is confused about your opinion on this. There are opposing opinions. I'm not sure why you feel you have to come out swinging at anyone who disagrees, but perhaps that is worth some introspection. I will say that I don't think that kind of posting is beneficial to the forum community. Disagree if you wish, but leave the evaluations of other people out of it please. I really hope chrishoney sticks to their stated intention of not getting into a fight. Saying too late, you're fighting me now whether you like it or not is just inflammatory.
Depression is very possibly affected by PM, like it is by many things you can ingest (e.g. sugar), inject (e.g. meds), or apply (e.g. herbals or meds). That doesn't mean PM is mind-altering in the sense you are suggesting, that it can forcibly change your behaviour. Your behaviour is also derived from a very complex process, a very significant part of which is conscious thought and self-evaluation. Unless you're saying that you believe PM somehow renders you unable to think, then your position is untenable to my way of thinking. It is simply one more factor influencing your decisions. It isn't making decisions for you. My tendonitis affects my ability to shovel snow. But it doesn't decide if I will do it or not. As an influencing factor, I know it changes my predispositions when I am on it, but I don't believe it makes me do or not do anything on it's own. I have always been in charge of myself in that regard. I do not accept your statement that I am at risk of losing control of myself because of PM.
To the original post question, the only health concern I have experienced is I get nasty headaches if I take too much PM (for me that's 3000mg/day) and others have reported this symptom in the past on this forum and others. At my normal dose of 500-1000mg/day, I have no health concerns, and still make all my own choices about how to live.

Hi S,

the thing is, I tend to treat like with like. I'm quite happy to have a reasonable discourse with someone polite like yourself.

However, if you re-read Chrishoney's mail to me, it uses emotive terms like "bias" and "spouting falsehoods", when I can point to at least one case justifying my opinion, whereas all of his opinion becomes an ad-mon attack on mine. You cannot say "I'm not going to get into a fight" and then proceed to traduce what someone says in an insulting manner like a passive aggressive troll.

I'm quite happy to have someone disagree with my opinion - as long as it isn't an ad-hom attack. You obviously disagree, and you are one of the fortunate ones to whom it applies; but to extrapolate all behaviour from your response to PM is fallacious.

However, if you re-read my response to the original poster, it says:
"My only worry is it can make people who thought they would be happy with breasts, and who have a fulfilling penetrative sexual relationship, want to go for full gender reassignment. A mental health risk, if you will!"

It doesn't affect you that way. But by her own words, it did affect Beverley Rose that way.

"Can" does not mean "must".

Try not to make your own bias make you take sides; re-read my postings and you will see that I reply courteously to people courteously to me and retaliate vigorously to ad-hom attacks.

B.

[dargona]

I would prefer if we kept trans discussion/debate out of topic or point users to other boards/groups for support. I feel that these boards are best for covering the mechanics of breast growth regardless of underlying decisions or opinions, and we all have our reasons for the things we choose to do in life without making it more complicated. Even within the bio male community of wanting to grow breasts we seem to be lacking unity in terms of trans/feminization/lifestyle which is only going to lead to conflict and hurt feelings.

Just remember, we are a subgroup on an established board for the main purpose of breast growth, we should keep it to that, in my opinion

[bryony]

I would prefer if we kept trans discussion/debate out of topic or point users to other boards/groups for support. I feel that these boards are best for covering the mechanics of breast growth regardless of underlying decisions or opinions, and we all have our reasons for the things we choose to do in life without making it more complicated. Even within the bio male community of wanting to grow breasts we seem to be lacking unity in terms of trans/feminization/lifestyle which is only going to lead to conflict and hurt feelings.

Just remember, we are a subgroup on an established board for the main purpose of breast growth, we should keep it to that, in my opinion

Hi D,

I agree. I only give my opinion now when asked for it. Since we all have opinions, and there is not enough clinical trial evidence around to dispute it, I think a simple statement of opinions, without putting down anyone else, would be the most agreeable way to proceed.

B.