[MollyGQ]

OK so I've been reading through the threads for a few days now and there is just so much to look into. I'll be making a NBE Program soon, but I wanted to work some things out and get some advice if possible.

If you haven't, you can read my introduction if you want to know a little more about me or just ask me a question here, whatever is easier for you .

Now I have some very specific things I want to do with my program:

1. I want to feminise my body whilst remaining Fully Functional. I've read here that PM isn't the best way to do this so I've been looking into Isabelle's Program. I've not finished reading all the things here, but I'm getting more confused (why is my brain so clumsy?); a nudge or two would be appreciated but you can keep the spoon .
   
2. I have a lot of weight to lose (40 lbs / 18 kg +) so I plan to reduce my calorie intake and exercise more; I don't feel that the amount I want to lose will inhibit growth since I'll be aiming for slow, gradual loss. Is this advisable?
   
3. I'd prefer to use a mix of foodstuffs and supplements over using only supplements; I feel that my body processes food better than pills and it's nice to eat things too. How realistic is this?
   
4. The cheaper the better since I have a limited budget being a student and all; however my budget is quite generous (£40 - £60 p/m).
   
5. Fewer supplements would be preferable due to cost and easiness, but I'm happy to juggle as many supplements as needed; I'll start with a couple then add more gradually, there's no need to rush in and I have plenty of time.
   
6. Finally, what are some good sources? Although Holland & Barrett are convenient, they're really expensive. The best online UK source I've seen is HealthMonthly, do you have any other websites to share?
   

I'm sorry I haven't shared much about my circumstances, but I wanted to elaborate when required rather than boring people with my life story.

Thank you for reading,
MollyGQ x

[flamesabers]

Hello Molly.

Welcome to the board.

Now I have some very specific things I want to do with my program:

1. I want to feminise my body whilst remaining Fully Functional. I've read here that PM isn't the best way to do this so I've been looking into Isabelle's Program. I've not finished reading all the things here, but I'm getting more confused (why is my brain so clumsy?); a nudge or two would be appreciated but you can keep the spoon .

Taking pm and maintaining functionally is possible I think. I know some members go cold turkey with pm a few days every month to stay functional. Others take Butea Superba. I don't fall in either group, but after taking pm for a little more than 5 months, I still have functionally. It's just my sex drive and interest in sex that's gone away for the most part.

I have a lot of weight to lose (40 lbs / 18 kg +) so I plan to reduce my calorie intake and exercise more; I don't feel that the amount I want to lose will inhibit growth since I'll be aiming for slow, gradual loss. Is this advisable?

I'm not sure. The beginning of NBE starts with fat redisturbtion, so I'm not sure how that will be affected when you're losing weight. I think a significant issue is your body fat percentage doesn't fall below a certain number.

I'm as tall as you and I'm roughly weigh what you would like to. I can say NBE is certainly possible at 6'0 and 170-180 lbs.

I'd prefer to use a mix of foodstuffs and supplements over using only supplements; I feel that my body processes food better than pills and it's nice to eat things too. How realistic is this?

Do you have any food sources in mind? I think the big issue with using food sources is their phytoestrogens are not as strong as the pills and powder. I think pills and powder is by far the most common way to ingest the phytoestrogens required for NBE. Would mixing powder with a beverage like milk be a reasonable alternative for you? I haven't done this myself but it is one option to consider.

The cheaper the better since I have a limited budget being a student and all; however my budget is quite generous (£40 - £60 p/m).

Fewer supplements would be preferable due to cost and easiness, but I'm happy to juggle as many supplements as needed; I'll start with a couple then add more gradually, there's no need to rush in and I have plenty of time.

I think the fewer supplements you use the better. Not only does this save money, but it makes it much easier to identify what supplements work for you and what doesn't. Besides, your body has a limited number of receptors to utilize the phytoestrogens. It's not like taking more herbs maximizes your rate of growth.

Finally, what are some good sources? Although Holland & Barrett are convenient, they're really expensive. The best online UK source I've seen is HealthMonthly, do you have any other websites to share?

I buy my pm from ainterolherbs. I think they have a UK website. If you decide to go with pm, I think buying from ainterolherbs will meet your budget constraints.

[MollyGQ]

Hello Molly.

Welcome to the board.

Thank you for replying so quickly and for the warm welcome .

Taking pm and maintaining functionally is possible I think. I know some members go cold turkey with pm a few days every month to stay functional. Others take Butea Superba. I don't fall in either group, but after taking pm for a little more than 5 months, I still have functionally. It's just my sex drive and interest in sex that's gone away for the most part.

I know there are a lot of people's experiences written down about the effects of PM and thank you for sharing yours with me. I think I will use PM over RC / Hops etc because it's cheaper and easier to use / adjust doses; I am willing though to experiment with additional supplements added to PM. I think I would cycle PM as many people have mentioned breaks to be beneficial.

I'm not sure. The beginning of NBE starts with fat redisturbtion, so I'm not sure how that will be affected when you're losing weight. I think a significant issue is your body fat percentage doesn't fall below a certain number.

I'm as tall as you and I'm roughly weigh what you would like to. I can say NBE is certainly possible at 6'0 and 170-180 lbs.

I've only seen Isabelle mention something about the percentage having to be around 22% or above but I'm not entirely sure if anyone else has mentioned it or not - searches don't seem to be turning up the post I read it from originally either .

And it's good to know that my target weight will work for NBE; although whether I actually get there or not is entirely different.

Do you have any food sources in mind? I think the big issue with using food sources is their phytoestrogens are not as strong as the pills and powder. I think pills and powder is by far the most common way to ingest the phytoestrogens required for NBE. Would mixing powder with a beverage like milk be a reasonable alternative for you? I haven't done this myself but it is one option to consider.

I don't really have any idea what foods, I was mostly thinking about eating the whole herbs similar to Eve M's program and / or making my own powders. However, I'm happy to take supplements / powders too (whether they're mixed or not), I was just curious if there was an alternative - even if there is, it's extremely hard for me to find the whole herbs locally in the first place, let alone at cheap prices so I'll be ordering things online.

The reason why I prefer not to take supplements is because previously I became malnourished when I took multivitamins and fortified foods as part of a vegan diet; however in retrospect I only used one brand of supplements and had trouble eating balanced meals. I should note that I'm not vegan now and eat a range of meats, dairy and vegetables etc.

I think the fewer supplements you use the better. Not only does this save money, but it makes it much easier to identify what supplements work for you and what doesn't. Besides, your body has a limited number of receptors to utilize the phytoestrogens. It's not like taking more herbs maximizes your rate of growth.

A simple program is definitely better and I plan on using as few supplements as possible. I was mostly thinking that if I were to not use PM then I would try to use a range of supplements to get the same effect.

I buy my pm from ainterolherbs. I think they have a UK website. If you decide to go with pm, I think buying from ainterolherbs will meet your budget constraints.

Ainterol.co.uk is definitely where I would buy PM / BS as they're really cheap and both together would cost 25% (or less) of what I would be spending at the other website. I was mostly listing the other website in case people hand't heard of it before (unlikely) as they're the cheapest I've found for Swanson supplements online and UK-based (but they import everything into the country so I'm unsure of delivery speed).

[flamesabers]

I'm not sure. The beginning of NBE starts with fat redisturbtion, so I'm not sure how that will be affected when you're losing weight. I think a significant issue is your body fat percentage doesn't fall below a certain number.

I've only seen Isabelle mention something about the percentage having to be around 22% or above but I'm not entirely sure if anyone else has mentioned it or not - searches don't seem to be turning up the post I read it from originally either .

Around 22% sounds right. I think that's the ideal body fat percentage for females (and males trying to grow breasts.)

According to my bathroom scale, my body fat percentage varies from 17-20%. Since I'm pursuing NBE and have achieved some fat distribution to my bum, maybe I should reset my scale to the female standard. I wonder how much of a difference that would make (if any) with my body fat percentage number.

[MollyGQ]

Around 22% sounds right. I think that's the ideal body fat percentage for females (and males trying to grow breasts.)

According to my bathroom scale, my body fat percentage varies from 17-20%. Since I'm pursuing NBE and have achieved some fat distribution to my bum, maybe I should reset my scale to the female standard. I wonder how much of a difference that would make (if any) with my body fat percentage number.

Definitely worth a try, you might be pleasantly surprised or you could just calculate it online .

[AbiDrew85]

Re loss of function... It's my own, personal, humblest opinion, that it's not going to be the phytoestrogen that would or would not cause you to lose function. It's the combination of anti-androgen AND a phytoestrogen... Soooooo... My suggestion if you want to retain function, don't use SP. Maybe use more PM if you have to to get past the testosterone, but do not suppress ANY of your T.

[MollyGQ]

Re loss of function... It's my own, personal, humblest opinion, that it's not going to be the phytoestrogen that would or would not cause you to lose function. It's the combination of anti-androgen AND a phytoestrogen... Soooooo... My suggestion if you want to retain function, don't use SP. Maybe use more PM if you have to to get past the testosterone, but do not suppress ANY of your T.

Thanks for that, I was wondering if I should use an anti-androgen with PM or not. Right now I'm thinking of using PM with Maca and maybe add BS later if I feel it's necessary.