[Marina Kits]

Hi doodlebug! (I'm guessing with a name like that you must be British?)

I know what you mean, and I'm a way along in the chest department. You are going to have to come clean with your kids when they start to show (I take it your wife is in on this? If not you need her buy-in). At 60, it might be a bit easier for me to sigh and admit to old man's moobs. You also won't be able to go bare chested on the beach or swim any more. Does that matter? Are your kids past beach holiday ages?

Couple of things.
1. Chances are high that you will get beneficial effects, but watch out for an increase in anxiety. This is supposed to happen to people with normally masculinised brains at the foetal stage. (For more on this, search for Dr Ann Vitale) If you get no effect at all, it may be that you need a higher dose. I didn't get any benefit until I was on 3g / day.

Again, your wife needs to understand this. If you get her buy-in and she accepts that a better temperament comes with the cost of a larger chest, that will save a lot of upset down the line.

Thanks, Byrony. I'm not Brittish, I'm native Minnesotan. I picked the alias "Doodlebug" many moons ago - thought it sounded neat.

My wife knows EVERYTHING about me and is supportive and sympathetic. She knows this is not something I asked for and it's hard on me. We've talked about everything and she even knows I'm going to try PM to relieve the mental anguish. She doesn't however, know about the "side effect" or the NB. I want to wait and see how I respond to PM. Will it upset me physically? Will it have the desired mental effects? Will it cause the growth I hope for? If everything is good and I choose to continue using PM I'll eventually have to explain the side effects to her, wear a compression T under my golf shirts and stay covered when necessary. I hate water so that's the biggest problem out of the way.

Thanks for mentioning the anxiety I might experience. While I've been reading as much and as fast as I can, I haven't read that in any posts yet.

Funny story. Last night I got to give the NB a try. I imagine everyone does this, hense the warning on the instructions to be gentle at first but I was anxious to put C cups on myself in one useage so I sucked the H3!! out of them! Let's just say there's some tingling today and if we do anything "marital" for a while, the lights will have to be off. Ouch! Sadly, they went back to their original size rather quickly.

[flamesabers]

This is what you need to create a quote:

[Opening command] The text of the person's quote. [Closing Command)


Opening Command:
quote='doodlebug2055' pid='69153' dateline='1361658839'

Closing Command:
/quote

If you copy the opening and closing command for a quote, you can answer it line by line. When you click on the quote button, the opening and closing commands are already created. When you want to divide up another person's post, each section has to have the opening and closing command. When you reply to each section, ensure your response is after the closing command, otherwise what you type will be added to what you're quoting.

quote='doodlebug2055' pid='69153' dateline='1361658839'
I'm normally pretty tech savy but I can't figure out how to quote a post and respond to comments or answer questions one by one. I found the quote button but when I add my response, it looks like I added text to the other persons comments. I need to figure this out ASAP, can someone help me?
/quote

If I wanted to only quote your first sentence this is what it would look like:

quote='doodlebug2055' pid='69153' dateline='1361658839'
I'm normally pretty tech savy but I can't figure out how to quote a post and respond to comments or answer questions one by one.
/quote

Likewise, with your second and third sentences:

quote='doodlebug2055' pid='69153' dateline='1361658839'
I found the quote button but when I add my response, it looks like I added text to the other persons comments. I need to figure this out ASAP, can someone help me?
/quote



I hope this makes sense. If not, let me know.

[Marina Kits]

Did you see this post from "newgirlies"? It might be a way to get started quicker.

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=14669

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress!

Misty

Thanks Misty. While that offer is very tempting, I think I'm going to wait patiently for the ship to traverse the Pacific. If for some strange reason PM doesn't work for me, I don't want that much invested. Hopefully I'll regret my decision to pass on it.

[flamesabers]

Will it upset me physically?

It's possible. If you attain estrogen dominance for example, you may experience headaches or back pain. Fortunately, these symptoms and estrogen dominance itself can be remedied.

Will it have the desired mental effects?

Maybe. Some experience a mental change from pm while others don't. Bryony and I both experience 'brain rewiring' from taking pm, while Pansy-Mae doesn't.

Will it cause the growth I hope for?

I think it really depends on what your expectations are.

[aleah]

Maybe. Some experience a mental change from pm while others don't. Bryony and I both experience 'brain rewiring' from taking pm, while Pansy-Mae doesn't.

Wanted to comment on this specifically, I do not believe that PM or hormones have the same psychological effect on everybody.

I had noticed nothing on PM, actually my dysphoria got worse since I wanted to transition and I wanted more changes, faster.

I think it really comes down to psychology and expectations, I don't think it's exclusively physical. Everyone is different and what you really want comes into play.

The same is true for HRT, some people without even realising it have tremendous relief from HRT.. others feel no different and are only interested in the physical outcomes. Personally HRT has no difference for me other than possibly (could be just wishful thinking) a calming effect.

It's a myth that all people with GID have bad mental health and that some kind of hormone is a magic bullet.

[bryony]

Hi again doodlebug!

Thanks, Byrony. I'm not Brittish, I'm native Minnesotan. I picked the alias "Doodlebug" many moons ago - thought it sounded neat.

Ah! I guess you know that was the nickname for the flying bombs in the Blitz though!

My wife knows EVERYTHING about me ....She doesn't however, know about the "side effect" or the NB. .

Hmmm..... so, not everything then?

Please don't take the following as any form of negative criticism, because I do understand how difficult it all is.

I really do recommend being up front with her.

If there's one thing a spouse does not like it is being presented with a fait-accomplit.

Unless I miss my guess, she will take it badly finding out that you have been taking herbs and pumping to grow your breasts without consulting her first. After all, marriage is a partnership. How would you feel if she got her head shaved with an all-over body tattoo (or something equally ridiculous) without discussing it first?

This will affect her personally, so she does have a right to know.

If she understands your needs as you say she does, she may well give you the ok, in which case you can enjoy the fruits of your labours without guilt and secrecy.

If she says no, then you can breathe a sigh of relief at least, because she would be far unhappier if you grew and she realised it was in stealth mode.

Believe me, either way you will be better off!

This is the major piece of advice that I try to give to married men on this board. To act in stealth to feminise yourself is quite similar to being unfaithful with another woman because it is a form of betrayal: you are delivering a perceived message, true or not, that you do not love or trust her enough to grant permission, and also that a refusal is not acceptable to you which gives another message of not loving or caring enough to negotiate/persuade her of your needs.

I think you will find that all of the folk her who have used NBE and maintained a happy and successful marriage have been up front and gained permission in advance; myself, Patti, sfem and Pansy-Mae come to mind.

Good luck, whatever you decide,

B.

[bryony]

I had noticed nothing on PM, actually my dysphoria got worse since I wanted to transition and I wanted more changes, faster.

That's surprising. I wonder if you took enough? PM is supposed to be bioidentical with Estriol. Of course, on HRT you would have been on strong anti-androgens also, I presume.

I think it really comes down to psychology and expectations, I don't think it's exclusively physical. Everyone is different and what you really want comes into play.

Definitely

Personally HRT has no difference for me other than possibly (could be just wishful thinking) a calming effect.

I don't think it is wishful thinking. If you look at Dr Vitale's writings, that is predicted. That's what I get, but it's more important to me because I was badly screwed up.

It's a myth that all people with GID have bad mental health and that some kind of hormone is a magic bullet.

I think there is a big political correctness debate about this. The big activist push is to say that GID is not mental illness, but I disagree. My take is that if I were not mentally ill, I would be happy in the body I was born with. To be a married male heterosexual with 2 kids who wished with all his heart that he looked like Kate Upton is to have bad mental health, in my opinion.

For one thing, it sets the stage for other symptoms that clearly are mental ill health... in my case: long term low-level depression (dysthymia); waking in the night with panic attacks; a constant preoccupation with my oncoming death; constantly catastrophising about the safety of my children now that they are grown, e.g. car crashes, mugging, rapes.

If you can agree (I hope) that the forgoing is symptomatic of mental illness, and PM gets rid of it, it's not a giant leap to say that my GID caused the mental illness, for which PM was a magic bullet.

I agree that not all GID need be considered mental illness, because society has redefined the options for the "classic" trans person; the one who, as a child, "knows" that they were born in the "wrong" gender, is attracted to people of the same birth sex, whose friends are of the opposite birth sex. Particularly if they start early, these people get the treatment they need and they can then live in their defined gender.

The situation is very different for people like me and doodlebug who had GID less severely and went a long way down the road of relationships and development according to their birth sex, only to discover in medium-late middle age that life becomes intolerable. That's the point where you can debate whether GID is a trigger to mental illness or is the mental illness - though in the end it comes down to the same thing for the sufferer, which is to take sufficient hormone to sort oneself out.

I do agree that hormone is not necessarily a "magic bullet". If the GID has some other cause than insufficient foetal androgen exposure, then it wont work. I only know that it works for my kind of GID, and several others here.

B.

[Marina Kits]

Please don't take the following as any form of negative criticism, because I do understand how difficult it all is.

I really do recommend being up front with her [your wife].

It's all good. I appreciate the candor because I know your intentions are good.

Just for further clarification, I'd like to say that while I came here thinking only about feminizing myself, I quickly learned that I might be able to put an band aid (PM), so-to-speak, on my problem and live comfortably in my own body. To me, finding peace in my masculinity trumps the breast augmentation several times over. That's why I haven't discussed the possible impact on my breasts with my wife. If PM gives me some relief, I'll talk to her about what will likely happen to my breasts with continued use of PM. If I get no relief in 3-4 months, I think I will probably stop taking it. And without question, if down the road I want to take PM only for it's feminizing effects, I will absolutely get the blessing of my wife first. Your comments have convicted me however, that I need to put the NB away unless I have a talk with her.

Last night I was amazed to find an old thread (http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=9958&highlight=mass) ...a sort of survey where responders answered a dozen questions including, "how does your spouse or SO feel about your breast augmentation?" I couldn't believe how many wives were OK with it. It eased my concerns that my wife would react negatively to it. I hope I can find the thread again.

I really do appreciate your advise Byrony. Please don't hesitate to to speak your mind with me.

[bryony]

I really do appreciate your advise Byrony. Please don't hesitate to to speak your mind with me.

Hi Doodlebug,

you're very welcome, and I'm glad you think that I am of some help. I will always comment if I think I can put another point of view, but always with the best of intentions.

Good luck!

B.

[BigDee]

I'm normally pretty tech savy but I can't figure out how to quote a post and respond to comments or answer questions one by one. I found the quote button but when I add my response, it looks like I added text to the other persons comments. I need to figure this out ASAP, can someone help me?

Hello doodlebug,

The "Quote" button allows you to quote all or just a part of a persons post. See full quote above and partial quote below.

I need to figure this out ASAP, can someone help me?

If you wish to do a partial quote, just delete the part that you don't want. The lines in brackets "[]" must remain.

Edit: Oh yes, you can use copy and paste to get multiple quotes.

BigDave