[flamesabers]

Oh boy! That's sad news. From what you say, can I suggest that you look for a new job in the 8-5 region for starters? If you are on permanent graveyard shift, that's going to play havoc with your cortisol levels, with general health effects as well as possible weight gain. It won't do depression any good either. Personally, I'd like to see jobs with permanent night work banned... they are just not natural. You might just reverse the declining health problems.

I think Bryony has a good point here. Your sleep quality level can really decline when you're continually working the graveyard shift. Our bodies tend to get much better sleep during the night than during the daytime.

[MonikaT]

Oh boy! That's sad news. From what you say, can I suggest that you look for a new job in the 8-5 region for starters? If you are on permanent graveyard shift, that's going to play havoc with your cortisol levels, with general health effects as well as possible weight gain. It won't do depression any good either. Personally, I'd like to see jobs with permanent night work banned... they are just not natural. You might just reverse the declining health problems.

Another thing you might want to try is getting wheat out of your life. Sounds crazy, but there is increasing evidence that wheat (modern wheat at least) is responsible for a whole host of modern illnesses.

It sounds like you don't have any personal commitments.... and your friends are not responsive.... why not take your own advice (kind of) and join a self help therapy group for GD sufferers? You might make new friends? (Of course, the meetings might be during "normal" hours ... another reason to change jobs.)

Of course, I'm making these bold suggestions on the strength of a few paragraphs - feel free to dismiss!

All the best,

Bryony

Graveyard is temporary. We rotate every 3 months, but I was on day shift for the three months prior to February, which meant driving to work at 4:30 am (in the dark) and driving home after 3:30 pm (as the sun was setting). Now, I drive to work in the dark (7:30 pm) and drive home as the sun is rising (6:30 am) only to sleep while the sun is up. Couple that with a relatively cloudy, gray winter and working in a place where I don't see direct sunlight during the day, and it is a bad mix. In May, I rotate to swing shift so I'll get to see an hour of daylight on my drive to work. I actually gain weight on day shift, but since working a previous graveyard rotation, I can no longer get a decent night's sleep even with 1000 mg of L-Tryptophan and 15 mg of melatonin at bedtime. I wake up almost as tired as when I went to sleep and often can't fall asleep because of caffeine abuse in the form of energy shots since coffee and PM seem to be an explosive combination in my system. I already had sleep issues as a permanent side-effect of having once taken Effexor.

In September, I applied for a lateral move/slight promotion with my employer. They finally made a low-ball offer in December which I accepted because I know better than to hold out for more. That only works with new hires. The problem is it could be September of this year before they can fill the position I'm vacating, especially if the replacement is an internal hire, because then that person's position has to be filled from someone off the street which means getting them vetted, and all of this takes a while. My employer is actually slower at hiring than the federal government. The new position comes with a different set of stressors such as a laptop with air card, a cell phone, and the expectation of working up to 168 hours a week (24 x 7 = 168).

I don't know how I keep hijacking threads. Back to the original thread. I was only trying to discuss the brain rewiring effects of PM and suggest the OP consider counseling. Around here, there are therapists (not necessarily those specializing in gender issues) who offer counseling that also includes religious views. I'm not religious, but it might help a person who is. Of course, the OP comes from a strict religious viewpoint, and this might require readjusting something that is deeply ingrained which can be very dangerous without the proper guidance such as from a professional.

[Charrie]

First allow me to say I appreciate the concern shown by those who have replied. I am humbled to be so treated.

Secondly, Moniker and Monika T, I am sorry to hear of the heavy burdens with which you are challenged. My heart goes out to you both, and to others here. Certainly this gender dysphora is not an easy burden to bear as we who are afflicted with it well know.

Monika T, thank you for your suggestion about seeing a counselor. I have been to counseling with a gender specialist who "just happened" to have a Christian background. Her own experience made her familiar with the legalism with which I have dealt for so long. My faith makes it easy for me to understand that her background and my choosing her apart from knowing this particular about her did not "just happen."

To give a clearer view of my background please know that I no longer associate with the legalistic group that I was part of for so long. I left them about 4 years ago. I am still part of a conservative evangelical church, but one that is much more gracious. The pastor and numerous others know my gender struggles.

In regards to christian philosophy- your relationship with God is, first and foremost, a private affair.

Moniker this is so very true for me. I practice my very private faith publicly. I can submit as necessary for corporate unity yet, I will not compromise belief that is the product of personal study and meditation. At times this upsets leadership. In legalistic churches crossing the leadership's boundaries has consequences. I have been dismissed from membership twice for maintaining my convictions over the leadership's demands that I do otherwise. I share this to help everyone understand that I do take my personal faith seriously even to the point of crossing church leadership if necessary, though I always do so graciously but firmly.

My turmoil has not come so much from "church" as it has from my own unwillingness to own my condition and live with it in a "it is what it is" frame of mind. I believe I have that challenge mastered. This is one of the pluses of separating from my wife (at her demand) and then facing the hurt of her final choice of divorce.

My current thoughts and choices are really born out of a desire to figure out how to give "life" to this very real feminine side of my total self while maintaining the expected male responsibilities that are mine as a father, grandfather, former husband, church member etc. I am willing to do this for others. I certainly don't desire to hurt them.

But perhaps I can't pull this off. Perhaps if my body feminizes enough I will be forced into a decision to transition. Perhaps not. I am not sure of many things, but of this I am sure; all those just mentioned above don't know the real me. I am tired of being less than authentic.

Perhaps I will never have to be Charlene full time. (Charrie is short for Charlene) Perhaps I can be accepted as a more feminine man. Perhaps I won't need to be.

LOL - lots of perhaps, yes? But here is something I have found interesting already. The decisiveness of the decision to start FG/RC/SP has already calmed me some. Knowing that quite possibility I have found an answer that could possibly move me forward has been helpful.

Doctors call what they do a practice, for a reason I believe. After all that dedication to study once they are on their own they are simply practicing. If they hit on an answer for a patient that works - wonderful! If not, they attempt something else, all with the goal of bringing relief to the patient. I see what I am choosing to do in much the same perspective.

I believe it was Albert Einstein that said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I don't consider myself insane. So I am going to do something different and hopefully find some good results.

Wow, if you made it this far, thank you for your perseverance.

Any suggestions for the proper dosing amount of FG/RC/SP. I am 195lbs, 5'9". My FG is 610MG cap. My RC is extract standardized to 2.5% Isoflavones with 330 mg of RC and my SP is extract 320 mg standardized to 85%- 95% Fatty acids 272-304 mg 0.15% Sterols 480mcg.

For what it is worth, my underbust is 40" my bust is 42" my overbust is 41".

[MonikaT]

Any suggestions for the proper dosing amount of FG/RC/SP. I am 195lbs, 5'9". My FG is 610MG cap. My RC is extract standardized to 2.5% Isoflavones with 330 mg of RC and my SP is extract 320 mg standardized to 85%- 95% Fatty acids 272-304 mg 0.15% Sterols 480mcg.

For what it is worth, my underbust is 40" my bust is 42" my overbust is 41".

There is a lot of question as to whether SP does anything. Typically, at that dose, one capsule once or twice a day is used for benign prostate hyperplasia. I was taking it four times a day, but after reading various posts here questioning its effectiveness for NBE, I stopped. I am now taking pygeum instead.

I take FG at a dose of two 610 mg capsules three times per day. That's what I took when on RC, and I've continued that dose on PM. I'm not entirely sure FG does much. I thought it enlarged my breasts, but when I ran out of RC and switched to hops for a couple weeks, I lost growth while still taking FG. When I started PM, after about one week on 500 mg of PM per day, I regained everything I'd achieved while on RC.

I was taking RC at a dose of two 430 mg capsules three times a day. I'm not sure how that lines up with the product you're taking.

Taking all of that did increase the size of my breasts, but it did nothing for me mentally, not that I feel any particular angst over being somewhere on the transgender spectrum. I'm okay with expressing my feminine side at home and presenting myself as male to the world. I just want real breasts instead of the moobs I've been dealing with for 42 years.

[flamesabers]

Any suggestions for the proper dosing amount of FG/RC/SP. I am 195lbs, 5'9". My FG is 610MG cap. My RC is extract standardized to 2.5% Isoflavones with 330 mg of RC and my SP is extract 320 mg standardized to 85%- 95% Fatty acids 272-304 mg 0.15% Sterols 480mcg.

It'll vary according to the brand you're buying for these herbs, so these will most likely be ballpark figures for you. Here's what I was taking when I first started NBE.

For 2.5 months:

• Red Clover (375mg 3x a day)
• Fenugreek (610mg 3x a day)
• Saw Palmetto (585mg 6x a day)

For 1.5 months:

• Red Clover (375mg 6x a day)
• Fenugreek (610mg 6x a day)
• Saw Palmetto (585mg 9x a day)

I bought them all on amazon.

Red Clover:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00020HYG6/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fenugreek:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00014DJL2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Saw Palmetto:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00020HQQ4/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I experienced some fat redistribution to my breasts while on these herbs. However, it didn't seem like I got any growth of breast tissue, which was a big reason why I switched to pm. Also, I found it more convenient to be taking only 1 herb as opposed to 3.

[Marina Kits]

Charrie,
I got to read your post this weekend but was too busy to respond. Finally, I have a little time and want to use it to respond to your original post. First let me say I’m sorry to hear about your marriage. It is sad to see something that has surely weathered many storms taken down by this “factory defect” for lack of a better description. I’m convinced that every person ever born, bar one, was born with at least one defect. It’s too bad your wife couldn’t find it in her heart to help you carry yours rather than abandon you because of it. [pause to say thanks to the guy upstairs for a wife who has chosen to stick with me] The more I understand my own shortcomings and defects, and there are plenty, the more understanding of others I find myself to be.

I wouldn’t call myself religious but I do believe Jesus Christ is all that he says He is and I have a very real friendship with Him. Those who do not know Him deeply cannot understand this but perhaps you do and if so, I encourage you to run to Him. He, more than anyone, understands factory defects and despite them, loves us as we are rather than as we should be. I’ve struggled, pleaded constantly to have it removed, been angry about is and hated myself for days because of it but ironically, I have found some peace with my defect because even though I can’t seem to get it fixed, I have no less than One who completely understands me, cries with me at times and even enjoys my company. One thing that always brings a smile to the girl inside me is that we Christians are called the BRIDE of Christ. If I can’t be a bride in this life, at least I will be in the next!

I stand with you in your decision to remain outwardly male. I don’t judge anyone for choosing a different path but I think for those of us who are older with families, staying male for those we love and are loved by is the best thing to do all persons considered. Perhaps the adults could deal with it but I think it’s a lot for the younger ones to handle. I don’t know, I could possibly change my mind someday but in the meantime, we can encourage each other as needed.

I personally came here in early February hoping to feminize myself but was intrigued when I found out that PM might be able to mitigate my desires. I’m off to a rough start on PM (potential kidney pain, bowel irritation, strep infection and antibiotics) but am trying to find a dose that, primarily eases my GID. I’m not sure what I’ll do if I don’t get that effect or what I’ll do down the road if it ceases to have that effect. Either way, I wont be disappointed with breasts if I get them - so long as they aren’t too big, which appears hard to do with just PM.

Anyway, I hope you don’t mind me chiming in and especially hope that nothing I’ve said rubs you (or anyone else) the wrong way – especially the Jesus stuff. I’ve found everyone here to be very accepting, encouraging and polite. I hope the same is said of me. Again, welcome to the forum. I’m glad you found us and joined the conversation.

[Charrie]

Flamesabers and Monika T thank you both for your help. I am on lower doses currently, but I'll start easily, monitor myself the best I can, and then move forward.

Should these herbs be taken with or without food to make them as effective as possible?

[Charrie]

Anyway, I hope you don’t mind me chiming in and especially hope that nothing I’ve said rubs you (or anyone else) the wrong way – especially the Jesus stuff. I’ve found everyone here to be very accepting, encouraging and polite. I hope the same is said of me. Again, welcome to the forum. I’m glad you found us and joined the conversation.

Dear Doodlebug, the sound of your chime is music to my ears and encouragement to my soul. Thank you. Do know that I am rubbed very right by the "Jesus stuff".

Question did you start right off with PM rather than starting with some of the other herbs? I have been hesitant to start off so quickly with the "good stuff" without first "priming" my system with the FG/RC/SP and massage.

[MonikaT]

There are some differences between what I did and what Flamesabers did because of a difference in the products. I bought all of my herbs from Swanson Health Products http://www.swansonvitamins.com.

Based on dosage, you are using a standardized SP extract, which is what I used. I didn't follow the link, but I'm guessing Flamesabers was using SP whole herb. Either way, we were both taking very large doses.

Btw, I'm glad to hear you have sought some counseling. If nothing else, it helps reconcile some of the conflict.

[Marina Kits]

Anyway, I hope you don’t mind me chiming in and especially hope that nothing I’ve said rubs you (or anyone else) the wrong way – especially the Jesus stuff. I’ve found everyone here to be very accepting, encouraging and polite. I hope the same is said of me. Again, welcome to the forum. I’m glad you found us and joined the conversation.

Dear Doodlebug, the sound of your chime is music to my ears and encouragement to my soul. Thank you. Do know that I am rubbed very right by the "Jesus stuff".

Question did you start right off with PM rather than starting with some of the other herbs? I have been hesitant to start off so quickly with the "good stuff" without first "priming" my system with the FG/RC/SP and massage.

I have not used anything at all until Feb 2013 when I decided to go for it.
I started taking a low dose of SP (320mg 2 times per day) on Feb 12.
I started using a Noogleberry on Feb 15 which I like very much.
My PM finally arrived on Mar 4 and I immediately started taking 1 pill, 2 times per day but on the 3rd day, I got severe kidney pain and quit. I think the kidney pain was from an unrelated strep infection and since I was put on antibiotics I chose not to resumed PM for the time so I can better discern what drug / herb is causing what side effect. I probably wont resume until Mar 16 when my antibiotic is gone.