[MistressGeorge]

I can understand alot of what Emily has said. I believe the abuse she speaks of though, is attributed to the psyche that follows from having a woman's body and also the social aspects that comes with it, as well as the objectification of women and young girl . Apart from Medieval times, this still stands true. I am not saying that other groups of people ( men, children, different "races") have not experienced abuse. Sometimes it is hard to understand transgenderism, because it can be seen or perceived as one of the worse problems that women deal with- objectification. Not only are we raped, had to and is some places still have little no no rights and human rights, and then some men actually want to become us.... As a woman, this may be hard to grapple with. Some women may see it as reinforcement of the objectification we suffer, the fact that it seems to be a male phenomena as (transgenderism) adds to that. Also, I do not mean to judge anybody, we are all entitled to live our lives and be happy, but some transgenders maybe are just obsessed with feminiity and or the female body as opposed to others who feel they are actually women.

[AbiDrew85]

I can understand alot of what Emily has said. I believe the abuse she speaks of though, is attributed to the psyche that follows from having a woman's body and also the social aspects that comes with it, as well as the objectification of women and young girl . Apart from Medieval times, this still stands true. I am not saying that other groups of people ( men, children, different "races") have not experienced abuse. Sometimes it is hard to understand transgenderism, because it can be seen or perceived as one of the worse problems that women deal with- objectification. Not only are we raped, had to and is some places still have little no no rights and human rights, and then some men actually want to become us.... As a woman, this may be hard to grapple with. Some women may see it as reinforcement of the objectification we suffer, the fact that it seems to be a male phenomena as (transgenderism) adds to that. Also, I do not mean to judge anybody, we are all entitled to live our lives and be happy, but some transgenders maybe are just obsessed with feminiity and or the female body as opposed to others who feel they are actually women.

It really isn't though. You don't usually hear as much about them for various reasons, but there's a whole other portion of transgendered who are genetically female.

Also... there probably is a portion who do somehow objectify and obsess with femininity and such... A portion that is still essentially male. I don't pretend to understand what makes those ones think that way, but it does appear to be a very male thing. As far as I can tell, men really can't help themselves when it comes to objectification of femininity.

Though I've been witness to a number of women, including those born to female bodies, who are just as bad. Usually with male bodies. So I imagine if things had gone the other way around, it'd be the male body we'd be seeing over-advertised. It gets it's share as-is. Though perhaps not "fair" share, lol.

I can't really describe it, but I don't want a female body because it's some special object to me, but because I already AM female, and being in a male body feels like a prison and is torture.

And honestly due to my unusual circumstances I get to see the "battle of the sex's" from a slightly different angle, an outsiders view, almost, and what I see is two sides doing exactly the same sorts of things to each other, and pretending it's all the other sides fault. Somehow the male side came to dominate at some point in social evolution, but if the female side had come to dominate instead, we'd be looking at a "masculinism" movement instead of feminism.

Why we can't all just be "different but equal" totally escapes me.

But I'm really just a girl with a birth defect that has forced me to attempt to learn to see things from the male perspective just to survive.

[MistressGeorge]

I wasn't talking about you Abi, just voicing my opinions. The whole battle of the sexes thing is weird. Yes Im a woman, and I focus on a womans life and challenges, but in the bigger scope I do not see men as the ultimate offenders of women. Nor do I seek to seperate the sexes and make amends for whatever offenses either have suffered. Its more of just observing myself and others, my life and the world around me- Im a woman in this world so thats my point of observation. No more or less.There should not be a men vs women attitude. We go hand in hand women and men. I know lots of ppl see things that way, I dont. I personally thinks its too extreme. Sometimes that is the problem I have with feminism. Feminism seeks to empower the opressed, yet the opressed are not only women, but some are also men and children, especially socially in America.
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[AnnieBL]

More thought provoking posts by Abi Drew. I’m not trying to embarrass you with compliments, but your perception and clarity of statement have helped me enormously in sorting out and understanding my own situation, not only in respect of gender, but also in matters of religious belief. I’m not going to comment on much of what you say because I feel that it is somewhat impertinent to comment on issues outside my actual experience. I wholly agree that one should value people as persons and very much in common with my wife I deplore the gender warfare that is all too common between men and women and even within the transgender community, and which demeans all involved.

Nonetheless, while I believe in the soul I have yet to be wholly convinced that gender is an essential part of it, because it seems to me, and I am very willing to be convinced otherwise, that such a belief inevitably divides the human race into two camps, male and female, and is likely to to lead to distrust, by those who see themselves firmly in one camp or the other, of those they perceive as having crossed between camps. This I think is the problem expressed by Emily in a post which she seems to have tried quite hard to make non-combative. Mistress George quite rightly deplores the objectification of women, and the dangers it brings, but does not take account the fact that men are also subjected to extensive, but less physically endangering, objectification, and that the main culprits are men and women themselves as they try both to comply with societal norms and control the tyranny of their own hormones and genetic programming. I always used to try desperately to conform, and usually failed miserably. Now I find it better to be at peace with myself.

I wrote the above before I saw Mistress George's latest post, with which I am much more in sympathy.

[AbiDrew85]

I wrote the above before I saw Mistress George's latest post, with which I am much more in sympathy.

In a way I'm really in agreement with a lot of what both of your are saying... Though me saying that gender is in the soul doesn't mean I'm limiting that souls gender to ONLY male OR female. I've expressed in previous posts that my thoughts on gender are especially expansive and include not just the binary, nor even just a sliding scale but a whole spectrum with just as much variation on a second axis as on the more obvious one.

And that's JUST gender.

In all serious actuality, life is very very complex and far too much so to be conveniently cataloged and boxed away into mankind's neat little cubby holes.

[Lacey Ra]

Honestly, I think women and transgender women will never meet eye to eye, we can only view as women, while transgender women view it from a male/female perspective and it doesn't matter if you believe you're fully women or whatever else, you've still had life experiences as a man that is apart of you and made you who you are. And because women know that transgender women were males, we will naturally feel some kind of apprehension about transgender women always and forever. Not everyone don't have to like it, but society has created and needs to separate us on some level of classification because society understands that fundamentally there will always be a difference, not matter how slight one thinks it is, it's there. And it will always be there. And frankly I like my box, it's apart of my identity. Being an all natural XX woman is apart of who I am. As being a transgender woman is apart of who they all are. We don't have the same experiences so we don't identify the same.

Any person who wanna get rid of society's boxes seriously needs to wake up. Life would be soooooo boring if we were all grouped the same, to erase the boxes you'd erasing someone's identity, something that makes them them. Life fits perfectly inside society's boxes, it's certain people who don't like being inside the box. Not with that being said, again I say there is no reason that ALL women can coexist nicely. We're all women, just different parts of the women identity. Tigers and Cheetahs ain't the same animal but they're both classified as cats.

And ya know, writing this I think I done answered my own problem. I can embrace transgenderism (to a certain extent) and will start taking it a small step at a time.

[MistressGeorge]

I agree

[AbiDrew85]

You completely missed my entire point. I'm not saying we should be all grouped the same. I'm saying we shouldn't be grouped at all. We are all completely individual with our own individual wants and needs and likes and dislikes and aspects of our identities...

People trying to be like OTHER people AT ALL is what's evil. And people assuming another person is a certain way just because of certain aspects of them that line up with certain aspects of another person they know is also evil.

And yes. I say it's EVIL. By doing those kinds of things to people you're trying to enforce your will and your beliefs and your way of thinking on another, who, more likely than not, does not even remotely resemble what you think they do. Not when you rely on such narrow-minded means of defining them as categorizing and pigeon holing.

And yes. I really actually DO live by my own mouth here. This is a major part of my personal ethos. To treat everyone as an entirely new and different and wondrous soul who is entirely their own and not "like" anyone else. Similarities, sure, but the only time someone is "like" someone else is when they're BOTH being fake. Which they might be doing for kicks, or there might be something sinister to it.

[flamesabers]

Any person who wanna get rid of society's boxes seriously needs to wake up. Life would be soooooo boring if we were all grouped the same, to erase the boxes you'd erasing someone's identity, something that makes them them.

I don't equate getting rid of society's boxes as everyone sharing the same single identity. I see it more as putting an end to the "us vs. them" mentality. I think there'll always be differences that separate individuals from others. The question is whether these differences are used to fuel the fire for prejudice and hostility.

Life fits perfectly inside society's boxes, it's certain people who don't like being inside the box. Not with that being said, again I say there is no reason that ALL women can coexist nicely. We're all women, just different parts of the women identity.

Just because something feels convenient or is prevalent amongst humans doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically beneficial or just. Anger for example, is a very natural emotion, though I don't think that means we should lash out at others whenever we feel some rage. Trying to coexist nicely is a bit idealistic I admit. I think perhaps a more sensible goal is to have respect for others.