[PattiJT]

Abi,

It's only bait if you rise up and take it. It takes 2 to tango. It also takes 2 to discuss something. Discussion being the preferable course. No-one wanted to ask her what the heck she was talking about, or for a more understandable explanation of her position. It was pretty much "flame on! I also didn't name names. I know you were one of the more reasonable ones to reply. However, and not to single you out, you were heavy on the religion mentioning. I have to wonder, what does the "People" reference mean? A chosen race? Aren't the Maori the chosen race? Really, I thought we're all supposed to believe all are equal, right?

You may choose to substitute gender for sex. I stick by the way I posted it. It was what I intended. Maybe part of the problem some of us have is the fact that we change terms to suit us? It is easier that way, isn't it?

Are you broken? Are you not whole? Who has made that decision? Actually, before I get into that, I have to get some sleep. It's nearly 4 AM here, and I've just spent 3 lovely hours defrosting my heat pump, and I'm beat. Later, Patti.

[AbiDrew85]

Abi,

You know what. Never mind. I obviously can not discuss this with you, for you are going to discard whatever I say without even considering anything I say.

Have a good rest. I'm just getting going for the day myself.

[Wishful]

Have you noticed, that in 4 pages of posts, Zipporah never posted again in defense of the original post or extending the statements there? If Zipporah did not intend to take part in the discussion, why the first post? Possibly just to stir up trouble?

[MistressGeorge]

Yw tibetan! I wish too! Its funny, I actually live as a woman. Im very feminine by society standards and I am bio born woman. I love being woman. However, how can I be woman without being and understanding man? To be woman I also am man, see? I cant claim a position without understanding both respective points.
I am a woman, but I am also a man. I cant pick because both re ever present in mind pysche and soul wether I choose to present myself as a "woman"or not.
I didnt say you had to agree abi! And Im not religious. Doesnt that change the issue were addressing by fitting these ideas into the scope of religion rather than to explain processes, perceptions and emotions we all experience?

[sfem]

In the spirit of feather ruffling, might I suggest that if you can't help but proselytize a supernatural belief, it would be better done on Cheryl's forums than here? The prevalence of that overtone there is why I rarely visit there anymore. I'd hate to see it happen here too. This has long been a relatively rational place to discuss our primary topic.
And Zipporah was very obviously a troll. You'll have a very difficult time convincing me otherwise. There was no useful information in the original post, no rational discourse, and no logic. It was pure judgement with random things dragged in to make it appear to have thinking behind it instead of emotion. At best, it only deserved ridicule.

[SarahSchilling]

People give the opinions of others, as well as their own, entirely too much weight lol. I haven't replied here up to this point not because it's kind of a trollish thread, but because I really don't care what some random person thinks about gender or religion.

I value some of your opinions, both ones I agree and disagree with, and the rest I read as white noise. This thread has the tone of something you'd read on a sports, politics, or religion site.

I don't frequent any of the three anymore. At the same time, far be it for me to judge. IMO, each person is their own island to some degree, and whatever you want to type isn't going to affect me anymore than I decide to let it.

[SarahSchilling]

double post for some reason, sorry.

[flamesabers]

Have you noticed, that in 4 pages of posts, Zipporah never posted again in defense of the original post or extending the statements there? If Zipporah did not intend to take part in the discussion, why the first post? Possibly just to stir up trouble?

I noticed the same thing. I think this is frequently the modi operandi of trolls. Considering she hasn't spent much time online on this board, it's doubtful she even has read these 4 pages of posts.

[MonikaT]

Gonna play devil's advocate for a bit, just because I'm in that kind of mood, and it's time for bed.

Abi, how do you know all these issues and the cure are God-given? Perhaps it is all the work of Satan. He is tempting you as he did Eve with the apple.

Patti, you rail against the use of religion, then throw swamis into the religious mix. I'm a bit confused.

Honestly, I did not see Abi's use of religion as anything more than a way of refuting what was partly a religious attack in the OP. Furthermore, her religion, and I know, and work with, many Mormons, cannot allow for the possibility of reincarnation.

Not that it is relevant, but I'm a secular Jew. My mother was raised Orthodox, my father, though Jewish by birth, was raised and confirmed Lutheran and considered himself a Pantheist. Both of my parents believed in various forms of mysticism including numerology, ESP, and astrology. I was raised with such an amalgam of beliefs, including a touch of certain Eastern philosophies and a sampling of various churches, that all I really know is this: Most religions have at their very core the central beliefs that we should be kind to each other and try to always do what we know is the right thing. The mechanisms and rituals may be different, but the concepts are basically the same. I may not believe in Jesus or that Jesus was really a space alien or that people came from aliens and volcanic eruptions or that bad people go to some place called hell or even that this is the best (or worst) of all possible worlds, but I do believe we all want the same thing--boobies!

[flamesabers]

Perhaps it is all the work of Satan. He is tempting you as he did Eve with the apple.

What I find particularly interesting about this story is Satan didn't lie to Eve: she and Adam didn't die from eating the apple. Furthermore, they gained the knowledge of good and evil.

I do believe we all want the same thing--boobies!