(This post was last modified: 16-04-2013, 10:05 AM by Alex21m.)
Hi everyone, I'm after some advise, iv been using noogleberry for about 6 months and had abit of growth but want to use herbs to speed it up, more persifically iv ordered saw pamaletto and fenugreek capsuals.
I understand their will be some loss in libedo but will I loose all sexual function or can I limit this damage by taking breaks off herbs when I'm struggling to get an erection?
Also what sort of dose should I use to start with and then increase it to?
Iv been looking through old threads but wanted to get to know you guys aswell lol.
I'm quite chubby so had moobs already tbh just attatched a pic, also wondering will they get a lot more rounded or stay manboobish?
Thankyou xxx
If you do a search, you'll probably get answers to most of your questions. If loss of sexual function is a primary concern, you should probably forget about NBE.
As for dosing, it depends on the strength of what you bought. For example, there is saw palmetto extract which typically comes in srengths of 160 mg and 320 mg per capsule and there is whole herb saw palmetto berries. You might need to take up to four times whatever the maximum dose is on the label. Jusr keep in mind that saw palmetto is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor which means it is supposed to prevent the conversion of T into DHT. DHT is what causes male pattern baldness, excess body hair, and benign enlargement of the prostate. There is a lot of debate as to its use in NBE for biological males.
Fenugreek usually comes in 610 mg capsules. It is not uncommon to build up to six or more capsules a day (two caps three times per day). I wouldn't expect much growth from either one even in combination.
Red clover might give a little bit of growth, but it seems either pueraria mirifica or bovine ovary are necessary for real growth. Most people take at least 2000 mg of one or the other, and it takes a few months to start seeing results, usually.
Going off the herbs might restore lost function, but it might not. Stopping and starting might make it harder to get results. Then again, some MtF transsexuals report a surge in breast size when they resume hormone therapy following the break they have to take for SRS.
Typically, most people start with one capsule of an herb daily, then increase the dose by another capsule every week or two until they reach the dose they desire of that herb. After that, it could be months before anything noticeable happens, if anything happens at all.
(16-04-2013, 09:10 PM)MonikaT Wrote: If you do a search, you'll probably get answers to most of your questions. If loss of sexual function is a primary concern, you should probably forget about NBE.
As for dosing, it depends on the strength of what you bought. For example, there is saw palmetto extract which typically comes in srengths of 160 mg and 320 mg per capsule and there is whole herb saw palmetto berries. You might need to take up to four times whatever the maximum dose is on the label. Jusr keep in mind that saw palmetto is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor which means it is supposed to prevent the conversion of T into DHT. DHT is what causes male pattern baldness, excess body hair, and benign enlargement of the prostate. There is a lot of debate as to its use in NBE for biological males.
Fenugreek usually comes in 610 mg capsules. It is not uncommon to build up to six or more capsules a day (two caps three times per day). I wouldn't expect much growth from either one even in combination.
Red clover might give a little bit of growth, but it seems either pueraria mirifica or bovine ovary are necessary for real growth. Most people take at least 2000 mg of one or the other, and it takes a few months to start seeing results, usually.
Going off the herbs might restore lost function, but it might not. Stopping and starting might make it harder to get results. Then again, some MtF transsexuals report a surge in breast size when they resume hormone therapy following the break they have to take for SRS.
Typically, most people start with one capsule of an herb daily, then increase the dose by another capsule every week or two until they reach the dose they desire of that herb. After that, it could be months before anything noticeable happens, if anything happens at all.
Loss of function isn't really too much of a problem but I would like to be able to attain an erection even if its a very weak one I have to work for lol.
I was reading back some past posts today and it appears that people who haven't been dosing too much pm have had results and maintained sexual function so I will have to look more into that and hopefully someone who has managed to keep basic sexual function could help me abit more on that part.
The main concern I have now is the size of the moobs I already have, will this make it harder/impossible for them to look feminine?
Based on the specs of the SP product you've ordered, I'm taking a guess that one capsule is about the same as four 320 mg capsules of a standardized extract. They claim it can maintain healthy sexual function in men. I have to assume this is by preventing the conversion of T into DHT.
Some people retain function on PM by going off cold turkey for a week every month or two. There is some belief that butea superba, another Thai herb similar to PM, can help retain function. Key in all of this is the level of total and free T a person has to begin with.
I;m sort of like you in that I had fairly good-sized moos to begin with. I've only been on PM a couple months so I don't really know if PM will make them look more like female breasts or not. They are getting larger. My upper arms keep bumping into them as I reach across my body, etc. However, it is still too early to tell if they will fill out and be more feminine. Fwiw, my ex-fiancee is a GG, and her breasts look sort of moobish, but then she is overweight, too. So, I guess it is a matter what one regards as being feminine-looking.
(16-04-2013, 09:45 AM)Alex21m Wrote: Hi everyone, I'm after some advise, iv been using noogleberry for about 6 months and had abit of growth but want to use herbs to speed it up, more persifically iv ordered saw pamaletto and fenugreek capsuals.
I understand their will be some loss in libedo but will I loose all sexual function or can I limit this damage by taking breaks off herbs when I'm struggling to get an erection?
Also what sort of dose should I use to start with and then increase it to?
Iv been looking through old threads but wanted to get to know you guys aswell lol.
I'm quite chubby so had moobs already tbh just attatched a pic, also wondering will they get a lot more rounded or stay manboobish?
Thankyou xxx
Actually I'd be quite surprised if you lose any function on FG and SP. PM is much stronger and I have noticed a definite decrease in libido using it, but I still have full function when I want it, with no need to go cold turkey. That's probably because I'm using a lower dose (of PM) than others that are working toward transition. Before I started PM I was on fairly high doses of FG and SP (and my libido remained very strong).
I think Monika and Misty have already given a lot of good advice, so I don't have much to add.
In addition to losing some or all sexual functioning, I think something else to consider is the mental effects of taking a herb like pm. I still have some functionality, but unless I'm in the mood, it's difficult to get things going. I like having a very low sex drive, but you may not.
Lastly, would it be a problem for you if you experienced other physical feminization like fat redistribution to your thighs and hips while pursuing NBE?
(This post was last modified: 17-04-2013, 01:47 AM by AbiDrew85.)
(16-04-2013, 11:20 PM)MonikaT Wrote: Based on the specs of the SP product you've ordered, I'm taking a guess that one capsule is about the same as four 320 mg capsules of a standardized extract. They claim it can maintain healthy sexual function in men. I have to assume this is by preventing the conversion of T into DHT.
Actually it quite clearly states that it's 250mg of extract that gives 45% fatty acids... Which is actually LESS ACTIVE than the standardized...
Standardized is 85-95%, so average that to 90% and you need to double your dose in mg to get the same effect as standardized with this product... so half the product mg and you're getting a measly 125mg of extract strength with this product per capsule... Which means you need to more than double it to get THE SAME AS one 320mg capsule of standardized...
All these considered... this product is a waste of money. I can think of several lower price per effective dose standardized extract products.
I also wonder what their solvent is. They say it's a 10:1 ratio, which means this is an extract in a solvent, rather than a pure extract with solvent removed.
(16-04-2013, 11:20 PM)MonikaT Wrote: Based on the specs of the SP product you've ordered, I'm taking a guess that one capsule is about the same as four 320 mg capsules of a standardized extract. They claim it can maintain healthy sexual function in men. I have to assume this is by preventing the conversion of T into DHT.
Actually it quite clearly states that it's 250mg of extract that gives 45% fatty acids... Which is actually LESS ACTIVE than the standardized...
Standardized is 85-95%, so average that to 90% and you need to double your dose in mg to get the same effect as standardized with this product... so half the product mg and you're getting a measly 125mg of extract strength with this product per capsule... Which means you need to more than double it to get THE SAME AS one 320mg capsule of standardized...
All these considered... this product is a waste of money. I can think of several lower price per effective dose standardized extract products.
I also wonder what their solvent is. They say it's a 10:1 ratio, which means this is an extract in a solvent, rather than a pure extract with solvent removed.
They say it is 250 mg of a 10:1 extract (very highly concentrated) at 45% fatty acids and market it as 2500 mg. Given that standardized extract is, as you say, normally 85-95% fatty acids, I took that to mean it is more like 1250 mg of standardized extract. Thus it is more like four 320 mg capsules of standardized extract in one capsule.
(17-04-2013, 02:04 AM)MonikaT Wrote: They say it is 250 mg of a 10:1 extract (very highly concentrated) at 45% fatty acids and market it as 2500 mg. Given that standardized extract is, as you say, normally 85-95% fatty acids, I took that to mean it is more like 1250 mg of standardized extract. Thus it is more like four 320 mg capsules of standardized extract in one capsule.
OK... I think I know where you're getting confused... They're saying it's like 2500 mg of raw berry, not of the extracted stuff. The language is important. "Equivalent to 2500mg Dried Berries."
We're just talking dried whole berries. That's ALL the 2500mg number is. It's a number that even if it actually was accurate, it's still meaningless when comparing it to other extracts.
The only numbers that matter for comparing it to other extracts are the ones I used above... 250mg of extract, 45%. And standardized is typically sold as 160mg or 320mg of extract, 90% (average, which I'm assuming the 45% for this product to be also, since the mfg seems to LOVE inaccuracy.)
So simple math says it's half the concentration as standardized... so if you want to flip it around, standardized is a 20:1... except... there's something I'll get to later that changes this a bit.
More simple math says that we then half the mg's of this product to get the equivalent of standardized... which is 125mg.
What the difference is is that magic bit of information I've indicated multiple times... that ratio number indicates this is NOT pure concentrated extract but rather has at least some measure of solvent remaining... so what's really going on is that this product is a mixture of HALF standardized extract and HALF solvent. They decided to leave off the step of removing the solvent that's part of the standardized process, and they're charging you EXTRA for them to be lazy and using obfuscating marketing language to trick you into thinking it's worth it.
Though I do have to admit, the UK does seem to have somewhat more limited options compared to the US... That appears to be the ONLY true standardized product on the UK market... odd. Doesn't matter. It is the best of the best and you really can't easily beat it's bang for the buck either. Though in the US Swanson's brand DOES do that - at the cost of having fillers.
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