[Lotus]

Pygeum will also hurt my program too if I'm trying to rely on converting my own testosteron

No, ct. Pygeum, Reishi, and Chinese Skullcap are all 5 alpha reductace inhibitors. They act to lower your DHT level, which is good. They leave free T available for conversion to estrogen or for binding to SHBG. Inhibiting DHT metabolism is ALWAYS a good idea if you want to feminize your body.

Clara

ct is correct in part, the principle here converting DHT to E, so why suppress the free T that will go to the androgen receptor if not caught be Aromatase?, I've posted the steroid pathway to DHT several times, you'll see the pathway has two ways, what are they?

DHT

Or

Estrogen.


Seems to me that we're wasting a huge benefit here, it's not a new thing here people, they've been there all along, there called Enzymes.


   

[flamesabers]

ct23,

The reason why I suggested spearmint is because others and I have found it to be very helpful with reducing one's libido. As you are striving for full body feminization, I assume you would like to eliminate things like your male libido.

[GoneGirl]

ct is correct in part, the principle here converting DHT to E, so why suppress the free T that will go to the androgen receptor if not caught be Aromatase?

I don't understand this statement (bold). Your diagram does not show a pathway converting DHT to E. One has to, prevent DHT by inhibiting the 5ar enzyme. Pygeum, Chinese Skullcap, Reishi, finasteride, and dutasteride do that and adding any one of them to one's program is going to improve results.

If you disagree, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

Clara

[ct23]

Thank you, Lotus. I've been trying to refer back to the list of herbs you made for that poll a while back to be sure I'm correct to what each herb does.

Clara,
I understand where you are coming from but from Lotus' list in pretty sure pygeum decreased both estrogen and testosterone as well correct? Either way we're all here for the same thing... Beautiful round breast .

Flame,
I also understand you using spearmint for that. But with aromotase converting free t would be affected if I used it for killing my male libido. I thought the combination of estrogen from pm and the white Peony extract converting t and the Reishi preventing the testosterone to dht would be sufficient for breast growth, curves and killing my male libido.

Overall,
I thought my program would do what most females naturally do and that is convert majority of their testosterone to estrogen. Right? And then as I gain growth throw in pc for the last 10 days of the months?

[Lotus]

ct is correct in part, the principle here converting DHT to E, so why suppress the free T that will go to the androgen receptor if not caught be Aromatase?

I don't understand this statement (bold). Your diagram does not show a pathway converting DHT to E. One has to, prevent DHT by inhibiting the 5ar enzyme. Pygeum, Chinese Skullcap, Reishi, finasteride, and dutasteride do that and adding any one of them to one's program is going to improve results.

If you disagree, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

Clara

Thanks Clara, doing too many things going on at once here, (its) preventing free T to convert to DHT, now the pathway is clear.


I might point out, if we've had the huge success in the past show me!!, where's a C-cup?, D maybe?.......

That's using past methods here folks, B-cups are nice, don't get me wrong. Deep down we want D's, right?... When that's achieved, I'll say that's a successful program, everyone's entitled to their own goals though.

[Lotus]

To get the 800lb elephant out the room, yes I used those herbs too, the more research I did it all led me back to Aromatase. Clara, and this is in no way a critique (honestly), why did you (and or others) want to add synthetics?, or to use them with NBE?

Is it because of not being satisfied with one's goals right?. just curious!

Question-what's the percentage of bio-males starting on NBE and moving to synthetics?

[GoneGirl]

To get the 800lb elephant out the room, yes I used those herbs too, the more research I did it all led me back to Aromatase. Clara, and this is in no way a critique (honestly), why did you (and or others) want to add synthetics?, or to use them with NBE?

Is it because of not being satisfied with one's goals right?. just curious!

Question-what's the percentage of bio-males starting on NBE and moving to synthetics?

Well, I have mentioned my reasons a couple of times, but it's easy to miss. I have an appointment to see a transgender specialist (physician) at the Howard Brown Center in Chicago to continue with my transition under medical supervision. I decided to switch to pharma because I know that I will be prescribed synthetics from here on out. I want my first baseline blood panel to accurately reflect my existing T and E levels so that the doc can properly select the dosages of estrogen and anti-androgens that I need to achieve my goals. I have yet to hear of a physician that knows beans about herbs, and miroestrol (PM) does not show up as estrogen on the blood panel. I feel that the doctor cannot do right by me if I'm second guessing him by using herbs at the same time. My decision has nothing to do with dissatisfaction with herbs. Herbs have done fantastically well for me.

I don't know the answer to your last question. Sammie, Eva, Sarah, and AbiDrew come immediately to mind.

Clara

[Lotus]

To get the 800lb elephant out the room, yes I used those herbs too, the more research I did it all led me back to Aromatase. Clara, and this is in no way a critique (honestly), why did you (and or others) want to add synthetics? or to use them with NBE?

Is it because of not being satisfied with one's goals right? just curious!

Question-what's the percentage of bio-males starting on NBE and moving to synthetics?

Well, I have mentioned my reasons a couple of times, but it's easy to miss.  I have an appointment to see a transgender specialist (physician) at the Howard Brown Center in Chicago to continue with my transition under medical supervision.  I decided to switch to pharma because I know that I will be prescribed synthetics from here on out.  I want my first baseline blood panel to accurately reflect my existing T and E levels so that the doc can properly select the dosages of estrogen and anti-androgens that I need to achieve my goals.  I have yet to hear of a physician that knows beans about herbs, and miroestrol (PM) does not show up as estrogen on the blood panel.  I feel that the doctor cannot do right by me if I'm second guessing him by using herbs at the same time.  My decision has nothing to do with dissatisfaction with herbs.  Herbs have done fantastically well for me. 

I don't know the answer to your last question.  Sammie, Eva, Sarah, and AbiDrew come immediately to mind. 

Clara

Thanks Clara,

I really hope the specialist works out for you I hope you can share the outcome with the group.

Thanks ct for the opportunity to post in you're thread.

[ct23]

Thank you everyone! I'm sorry if it felt like I was stepping on any toes, I just didn't feel like I was explaining myself clearly. I used pm before but got a little scared when it started happening but now I know for sure all of this is what I want because no matter where I go or what I do I see girls and I envy them because I want the breasts, curves, emotional Rollercoaster, this certain "softness" that females have. There's more I just don't want to bore everyone with my ranting lol

[GoneGirl]

No, no! No need to apologize. We want to help you get onto a program that will work for you, ct.

I usually advise beginners to start with PM alone. For many, that's enough to get your breasts growing. PM alone will drive your total T level down quite a bit, but probably not to a female range. To drive total T down further, you'll need to add an anti-androgen to your program. I recommend a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor to drive down your DHT level. DHT is very bad if you're trying to feminize.

An alternative approach is to drive down your free T with an herb like Spearmint. If there's little free T, there will also be less DHT produced. Of course, there will also be less free T to aromatize to estrogen which is Lotus' objection to using Spearmint, and that's fine. My point is that it's always good to include something to lower DHT. Pygeum, Reishi, or Chinese Skullcap are herbs that can do that.

Hugs,

Clara