[The First Aria]

Well Not Moobs, there is , and the closest and strongest is PM.

[not-moobs]

Hi

You are missing my point about real oestrogen

PM, soy, and various other plants provide phyto-estrogens, not real oestrogen.

They are phyto substitutes, not the real thing.

[Lotus]

What many don't know about phytoestrogens is that in some forms it's stronger than E2- Estradiol, where one can find what's used in HRT.

Agonistic and antagonistic estrogens in licorice root (Glycyrrhiza glabra)


Several fractions displayed higher responses than the maximum response obtained with the reference compound, the natural hormone 17β-estradiol (E2).


The roots of licorice are a rich source of flavonoids, in particular, prenylated flavonoids, such as the isoflavan glabridin and the isoflavene glabrene. Fractionation of an ethyl acetate extract from licorice root by centrifugal partitioning chromatography yielded 51 fractions.
One third of the fractions displayed estrogenic activity towards either one or both estrogen receptors (ERs; ERα and ERβ). Glabrene-rich fractions displayed an estrogenic response, predominantly to the ERα. Surprisingly, glabridin did not exert agonistic activity to both ER subtypes. Several fractions displayed higher responses than the maximum response obtained with the reference compound, the natural hormone 17β-estradiol (E2). The estrogenic activities of all fractions, including this so-called superinduction, were clearly ER-mediated, as the estrogenic response was inhibited by 20–60% by known ER antagonists. Most fractions displaying superinduction were rich in flavonoids with single prenylation. Glabridin displayed ERα-selective antagonism, similar to the ERα-selective antagonist RU 58668. Whereas glabridin was able to reduce the estrogenic response of E2 by approximately 80% at 6 × 10−6 M, glabrene-rich fractions only exhibited agonistic responses, preferentially on ERα.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...po=7.50000

It's very tricky stuff, imo it should only be used under medical supervision.

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Spiro-is also used as a 5ar inhibitor, although not as strong as finasteride or dutas.

Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, The Ben May Institute for Cancer Research, and The Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research MC6027, University of Chicago, 5841 S. Maryland, Chicago, IL 60637, USA.

The enzyme steroid 5 alpha-reductase (EC 1.3.99.5) catalyzes the NADPH-dependent reduction of the double bond of a variety of 3-oxo-Delta(4) steroids including the conversion of testosterone to 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone. In humans, 5 alpha-reductase activity is critical for certain aspects of male sexual differentiation, and may be involved in the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia, alopecia, hirsutism, and prostate cancer. Certain natural products contain components that are inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase, such as the green tea catechin (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG). EGCG shows potent inhibition in cell-free but not in whole-cell assays of 5 alpha-reductase. Replacement of the gallate ester in EGCG with long-chain fatty acids produced potent 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors that were active in both cell-free and whole-cell assay systems. Other flavonoids that were potent inhibitors of the type 1 5alpha-reductase include myricetin, quercitin, baicalein, and fisetin. Biochanin A, daidzein, genistein, and kaempferol were much better inhibitors of the type 2 than the type 1 isozyme. Several other natural and synthetic polyphenolic compounds were more effective inhibitors of the type 1 than the type 2 isozyme, including alizarin, anthrarobin, gossypol, nordihydroguaiaretic acid, caffeic acid phenethyl ester, and octyl and dodecyl gallates. The presence of a catechol group was characteristic of almost all inhibitors that showed selectivity for the type 1 isozyme of 5 alpha-reductase. Since some of these compounds are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders. However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.


The extracts of Ganoderma lucidum inhibited both types of 5 alpha-reductase, a so-called dual inhibition that might be advantageous for the therapy of BPH, since it has been shown that the dual inhibitor dutasteride is more powerful in reducing the DHT plasma concentration than selective type 1 or type 2 inhibitors (Graul et al., 1999)

http://reishi.setamed.com/articulos/art20.pdf


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Reishi-reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness. (It's also estrogenic)



Pumpkin Seed Oil: Has been demonstrated to inhibit DHT formation through the inhibitory effect on 5-alpha-reductase activity. Pumpkin seed oil breaks down DHT via the liver.

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You should read these, yeah it's alot of info, but it's info you seek. You'll find more relevant info inside the forum using the search option. I'll say this again about SP, it inhibits progesterone receptors (which you need for breast growth) its been scientifically studied and the results posted many times over here. Its your choice though.

FAQ-aromatase
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19581

Anti-Androgens
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17416



Btw, SP reduces Estrace, Premarin, oral contraceptives and even finasteride.

[not-moobs]

Hi again

Many thanks Lotus for all the information you have provided - you must spend hours every day looking into all this, and contributing to this forum.

I didn`t know that licorice provided such powerful phyto-estrogens, but there is a lot of information out there about the possible problems associated with using it, so I haven`t ever really studied licorice in depth. Maybe I should look a bit more into it.

I note your various comments about SP - a couple of days ago I found a website that claimed that SP also reduces aromatisation of testosterone to oestrogen - so I don`t want that to happen, I want to increase aromatisation.

I must confess, my affinity with SP is actually historical - several years ago I had considerable problems with BPH, and SP was amazingly effective in reducing it within a few weeks. Ever since then I have been taking a low dose, and it has totally kept BPH at bay.

In Germany in particular, SP is the prescribed medication for something like 70% of BPH cases, rather than pharma drugs - it isn`t so well known in the UK.

So when I found out more specifically about the negative effects of DHT on breast growth, it was a fairly natural reaction to increase my SP intake.

But maybe I should look at other herbs or natural sources to inhibit 5 alpha reductase - as long as they also keep BPH at bay.

So far I still haven`t found a source of white peonie root in the UK, but I have just ordered a tub of Forskolin capsules - 250 mg capsules, of 20% extract.

I will try them and see what happens.

I know about the various health warnings - but - sometimes you have to just go for things to get the results you want despite the risks. I am quite certain that there is a much bigger chance of me being killed when I am out on my bike, that there is of Forskolin killing me !

I`ll let you know if I get my perfect boobs - B is my target - proper female style boobs, not moobs.