[TibetanPrincess]

@Lotus
Strange how you have such an animosity for how I really feel, and it's not just me.

I'm not angry in my feelings about this, it's just fact. I'm not the only one. Many women attracted to men feel this way. It's just, I have the balls (pun, yes) to say it.

I wish no harm with anyone who questions their identity, I just want it fully disclosed from my partner if it were me.

I know you do not like it, but could you possibly understand it? Could you ever fathom being one of many of the majority (woman)?

I guess not. And if you can hypothetically understand, then you are just being stubborn about It.

As for this thread being "hijacked," think again Lotus.
Do you really think it's fair for Hurricane to only hear from those like yourself???
It doesn't really help him. He needs perspective from all corners.

Its because she sees you as a total let down as far as having a partner, a male partner; which is maybe, possibly one reason why she claimed herself to be gay. She went back and forth on that notion, but then just said she's not attracted to you. I'm sure at one point , she was atraced to you. The fact that you do what you do, seems to be the last straw that "smashed everything."

Yes, from a straight woman's stand point, crossdressing and moobs is a big deal ( especially if YOU claim you are straight), because it's a selfish, unnecessary thing you wish to put first, knowing most women don't find that attractive in a male partner, hence why most do not disclose it to their wives in the first place.

But bottom line, it will not work and anyone can see that.

Your wife is clearly not accepting of it, never signed up for it, nor will you both be happy.

You need to just be honest upfront and live your life.

If I were you, I'd divorce and always disclose to my potential partners in the future about how I like to identify myself in front of the world and if it's a problem, then it's obvious, don't waste time.

Back to being a troll spewing the same ridiculous selfish nonsense. The only unnecessary selfishness comes from your intolerance for things you can't accept. Inbetweeners are just that, inbetween, which path they choose is up to them, get over it.

This thread won't be hijacked by you.

[Lotus]

Tibetan,

I suggest you take your own advice and read till your eyes bleed on the effects of estradiol on the male brain. For instance "men have comparable estradiol levels found in women in the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle." Science has documented the effects of aromatase in the male brain. Some struggle with their emotions from the effects of estradiol, simply stating men should've told (or known ahead of time) their partners is a ridiculous assertion. When the effects of estradiol dominates the male brain is anybody's guess, I don't buy the garbage you suggest, please read the science and do your own research, its as always what you preach. I haven't given my perspective to hurricane?, I just know how your hijacking pattern starts, your perspective comes with insults and hateful tones. The thread will now be split.


Effects of aromatase inhibition on luteinizing hormone release and testosterone production
It is well known from experimental evidence and from clinical observations that estradiol has powerful effects on gonadotropin release in men. Modulation of plasma estradiol levels within the male physiological range is associated with strong effects on plasma levels of LH through an effect at the level of the pituitary gland . Although FSH release is primarily under the control of inhibin, circulating estradiol has a substantial effect on FSH levels in men

More info on Aromatase

Inhibiting the enzyme 5 alpha reductase prevents the conversion to DHT, and the Aromatase enzyme converts free Testosterone to E2. Scientists are using the enzymes of 5-ar and aromatase as inhibitors to fight cancer.



Novel aromatase and 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8043491


Risks and benefits of aromatase inhibitors in postmenopausal breast cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10514021

• So the idea of using these enzymes for the benefit of breast growth isn't actually novel because your using them whether it's realized or not.
  
  

• Aromatase activity has not only been demonstrated in gonads and placenta but also in brain [6], fat tissue [7,8], muscle [9], hair [10], bone [11] and vascular tissue [12].
  
  

• Estradiol is the most potent estrogen produced in the body. It is synthesized from testosterone or estrone via aromatase or 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, respectively.
  
  

• The total estradiol production rate in the human male has been estimated to be 35-45 μg (0.130-0.165 μmol) per day, of which approximately 20% is directly produced by the testes [13,14]. Roughly 60% of circulating estradiol is derived from direct testicular secretion or from conversion of testicular androgens. The remaining fraction is derived from peripheral conversion of adrenal androgens [15].
  
  

• The mean estradiol plasma concentration in men is only about 1/200 of the mean plasma testosterone concentration [16] and is comparable to estradiol levels found in women in the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle.
  
  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

_________________________________________________


Testosterone can bind directly to androgen receptors (ARs) or can be aromatized to estradiol (E2), acting on estrogen receptors (ERs), or reduced to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), acting on ARs.

• These metabolites (E2 and DHT) play crucial roles in the organism, mediating many functions such as cognition, reproduction, feeding, muscle, blood and brain metabolism.
  
  

• Thus modulation of the enzymes 5-alpha reductase and aromatase has to be considered an important gateway to these functions. The former plays an important role in testosterone conversion to DHT in androgen-dependent tissue, the latter in T aromatization to E2.
  
  

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  
  

________________________________________________________________



Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. this creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.

Expression of CYP19 (aromatase) mRNA in the human temporal lobe.

Abstract
The conversion of androgens to estrogens by CYP19 (cytochrome P450AROM, aromatase) is an important step in the mechanism of androgen action in the brain. CYP19 expression has been demonstrated in various animal species, but studies in human postnatal brain tissue are lacking. Therefore, we investigated CYP19 mRNA expression in human temporal lobe tissues. We studied biopsy materials removed at neurosurgery from 34 women, 32 men and 10 children with temporal lobe epilepsy. Quantification of CYP19 mRNA was achieved by nested competitive reverse transcription-PCR. CYP19 mRNA concentrations did not differ significantly between women (2.6 +/- 0.6 arbitrary units, aU; mean +/- SEM) and men (1.6 +/- 0.3 aU) nor between cerebral cortex tissue (2.0 +/- 0.4 aU) and subcortical white matter tissue of adults (2.4 +/- 0.7 aU), but they were significantly lower in cerebral cortex specimens of children (0.9 +/- 0.6 aU) than in those of adults (p < 0.02). In conclusion, CYP19 mRNA is expressed in the temporal lobe of children and adults. CYP19 mRNA concentrations are significantly lower in specimens of children than in those of adults.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9535740

Expression of 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase types 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the human temporal lobe.

Abstract
Sex steroid hormones exert important biological effects on the brain. Moreover, an extensive sex steroid metabolism occurs in the brain. In sex steroid metabolism 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (17beta-HSDs) play essential roles in catalyzing the final steps in androgen and estrogen biosynthesis. Recently four types of human 17beta-HSDs and a pseudogene of the type 1 isoform were identified. To date, 17beta-HSD has not been extensively studied in the human brain. Therefore, we investigated the mRNA expression of the four isozymes of 17beta-HSD as well as the pseudogene of the type 1 isoform in the human temporal lobe to determine the predominant isoforms and, moreover, to elucidate the existence of possible sex and age differences. We studied biopsy materials from the temporal lobe of 34 women, 32 men and 10 children. Quantification of different mRNAs was achieved by competitive reverse transcription-PCR. 17beta-HSD 1, 17beta-HSD 3 and 17beta-HSD 4 were expressed in the human temporal lobe of children and adults, whereas 17beta-HSD 2 and the pseudogene of 17beta-HSD 1 were not expressed. In adults, 17beta-HSD 3 and 17beta-HSD 4 mRNA concentrations were significantly higher in the subcortical white matter (17beta-HSD 3: 14 591+/-3457 arbitrary units (aU), mean+/-s.e.m.; 17beta-HSD 4: 1201+/-212 aU) than in the cortex (17beta-HSD 3: 5428+/-1057 aU, P<0. 0002; 17beta-HSD 4: 675+/-74 aU, P<0.004). 17beta-HSD 1 concentrations did not differ significantly between the white matter (3860+/-1628 aU) and the cortex (2525+/-398 aU) of adults. In conclusion, the present study demonstrates the expression of 17beta-HSD 1, 3 and 4 mRNAs in the human temporal lobe. Together with CYP19AROM and 5alpha-reductase, known to be expressed in the human brain, the expression of 17beta-HSD 1, 3 and 4 mRNAs indicates the major importance of local steroid biosynthesis in the brain.

Inhibitors of 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12570693

Abstract
The 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (17beta-HSDs) play an important role in the regulation of steroid hormones, such as estrogens and androgens, by catalysing the reduction of 17-ketosteroids or the oxidation of 17beta-hydroxysteroids using NAD(P)H or NAD(P)(+) as cofactor. The enzyme activities associated with the different 17beta-HSD isoforms are widespread in human tissues, not only in classic steroidogenic tissues, such as the testis, ovary, and placenta, but also in a large series of peripheral intracrine tissues. In the nineties, several new types of 17beta-HSD were reported, indicating that a fine regulation is carried out. More importantly, each type of 17beta-HSD has a selective substrate affinity, directional (reductive or oxidative) activity in intact cells, and a particular tissue distribution. These findings are important for understanding the mode of action of the 17beta-HSD family. From a therapeutic point of view, this means that selectivity of drug action could be achieved by targeting a particular 17beta-HSD isozyme. Consequently, each study that leads to better knowledge of the inhibition of 17beta-HSDs deserves attention from scientists working in this and related fields. Being involved in the last step of the biosynthesis of sex steroids from cholesterol, the 17beta-HSD family constitutes an interesting target for controlling the concentration of estrogens and androgens. Thus, inhibitors of 17beta-HSDs are useful tools to elucidate the role of these enzymes in particular biological systems or for a therapeutic purpose, especially to block the formation of active hydroxysteroids that stimulate estrogeno-sensitive pathologies (breast, ovarian, and endometrium cancers) and androgeno-sensitive pathologies (prostate cancer, benign prostatic hyperplasia, acne, hirsutism, etc). Few review articles have however focussed on 17beta-HSD inhibitors although this family of steroidogenic enzymes includes interesting therapeutic targets for the control of several diseases. Furthermore, inhibitors of 17beta-HSDs constitute a growing field in biomedical research and there is a need for an exhaustive review on this topic. In addition to giving an up-to-date description of inhibitors of all 17beta-HSD isoforms (types 1-8), the present review will also address, when possible, the isoform selectivity and residual estrogenic or androgenic activity often associated with steroidal inhibitors.

[TibetanPrincess]

Either you didnt read my posting or i did not state clearly (and I'll go back and see), what I'm saying is, Your opinion is not as much needed as someone like myself, someone on the other side of things, get it?

I'm not arguing the female hormones in the male brain, sounds like you're reaching for something to pin against me; for argument.

My psychic gut tells me you need constant validation from others alike as well as any research you come across to justify your needs for feminization, that it's not some selfish desire You put before your wife/family.
I THINK you may be taking what I'm posting way too personal. As if I'm talking about your relationship. I'm not addressing you, unless your wife is having a $hit fit rage about your feminization Or perhaps in the past And is still struggling with it. Then yeah, I can see you feeling rather defensive.

If she's happy with you, that's wonderful and all that matters. But clearly, I'm talking about the common perspective other than your own. [/i]

[ElainMoria]

I think the part you are missing is it isn't a 'selfish' desire at all. It's a desire to be WHO YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN from the get go. People like you who haven't suffered from this issue don't and honestly can't understand the depths of pain it causes people like me and that isn't your fault at all so please don't think I am blaming you for that but instead.. let me explain....

ALL my life I have been miserable. Unhappy. Angry. Because I knew I wasn't right. That who I had to pretend to be, wasn't who I was. And you know what happened love? I took that out on people around me. Since coming to terms with MYSELF and accepting MYSELF and taking the medical steps to BE myself... I am for the first time in my entire 50 years of life... happy. Truly, unconditionally happy.

I know that you can't understand where I am coming from, and because you can't... you see what I am doing as something selfish.. in some ways you are right.. I AM being selfish in taking care of MY NEEDS for the first time in my life.. to become happy within myself. There is a side effect of this though love... The people around me are all asking me what has changed in my life. why am I so much nicer, happier, friendlier. My answer is simple. I am free.

Telling someone they should be miserable just to make their spouse happy is cruel. Perhaps the spouse didn't go into things expecting something like this, but if they truly LOVED their spouse they would see that making such a huge and drastic life change isn't something done on a whim and it isn't done for spurious reasons, it's done because it's the only way we can truly be happy with ourselves.

I hope you never have to face a situation where your level of internal misery is so severe that death seems a very viable option to you as it had become for me. Had I not finally accepted what I had been running from all my life and started taking the steps that I needed to take to be happy within myself... I would very likely not be here today to write this to you.

I don't know if I have helped you see why for some people this is most def not a 'selfish' desire but rather a case of choosing life, over death, but I hope you have a glimmer of why this is so.

~E

[Lotus]

Lol, thanks for the pep talk,

I don't know about your gut talk, but I can tell you I don't need validation from anybody, (well, maybe one). My point is the ridiculous hypocrisy of your position , I doubt "full" and complete disclosure is presented prior to any relationship or marriage, I mean c'mon, does everybody share all their weirdest fantasies, or their deepest fear?, regret?, hate?, bigotry?. Maybe a rare few are completely and I mean completely honest with a loved one, if you have that in a relationship then nothing should come as a surprise.

Over time a typical male is over saturated and exposed to daily estrogens, (this hypothetical is for the men without future predictors of TG, CD, NBE, gynecomastia). Note: supplied research regarding brain aromatase, .

Moobs that then influence men into further fantasies of growing a pair of their own boobs can be explained by the process of feminization in the brain. The male brain becomes feminized by the pituitary signaling the FSH hormone to produce more estradiol, (as what's been illustrated), and estradiol is 100x more sensitive at the receptor sites than T( even in males). This estrogen influence comes from the foods we eat to the meds we take. Foods that contain pesticides can contain xenoestrogens that are as potent (or stronger) than E2 estradiol. And environmental estrogens have an affinity for ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha, the growth receptor, that's the metabolite that proliferates cancers, (breast, bone, prostate etc cancers).

Tibetan, suppose you hid (secretly) that you're a BDSM mistress from your future partner. One day he wakes up and finds his balls are missing, (where are they?), you've already bronzed them and are currently hanging from your rear view mirror. Now that man is feminized by your own doing. Should you have told him prior to marriage that you'll eventually remove his manhood, note: some men would find this to be a fantasy, but...if you perpetuate this herein lays the hypocrisy, the missing balls represent a man who is dominated by his mistress, aka-feminized, just as well to let him grow a pair of boobs and that's where we're at, back to being moobs, does it explain my position?, lol no, it's just a hypothetical.

Someone who continues to spam the same hateful nonsense is a troll, that's the problem. People come here for support, knowledge, exchange ideas, not to be told their selfish and disgusting. In that regard, I do have a problem with, it's clearly stated in the user agreement against the harassment and hateful action towards others, and they will be subject to dismissal. Your statements of hate and disgust for straight men with boobs is clearly in violation of the user agreement.

Let's recap then,

As for this thread being "hijacked," think again Lotus.
Do you really think it's fair for Hurricane to only hear from those like yourself???
It doesn't really help him. He needs perspective from all corners.

Super, let's tell him that he's selfish and unnecessary, oh, I almost forgot, go ahead and get divorced, that's great life advice, very inspiring. How can I possibly top that perspective.

My psychic gut tells me you need constant validation from others alike as well as any research you come across to justify your needs for feminization, that it's not some selfish desire You put before your wife/family.

My gut tells me you have no clue......especially about why I post research, clearly, research is beyond your scope of knowledge. Thank you though for making me laugh, I appreciate that. Beauty is important to you, apparently you value that above all, whether you realize that or not. I place value on researching all aspects of nbe and overall health. If people use the research I've shared to advance their breast growth great, if not?, that's ok too, I don't take it personal. Someone that would insult your looks would probably face your wrathful ways. Beauty comes from the inside first, try to value that over you're intolerance towards the straight men on this forum, you might find peace and less stress on your cortisol and hasimotos.

[SarahSchilling]

As for this thread being "hijacked," think again Lotus.
Do you really think it's fair for Hurricane to only hear from those like yourself???
It doesn't really help him. He needs perspective from all corners.

Super, let's tell him that he's selfish and unnecessary, oh, I almost forgot, go ahead and get divorced, that's great life advice, very inspiring. How can I possibly top that perspective.

Lmao, tibetan's and your exchanges are the only entertaining part of this forum anymore for me.

Thank you.

[TibetanPrincess]

Some of you need a reality check, period. it's what many women will tell you. Just find an accepting one in the very beginning.

It's just like how some women think they can change their men. Some of you are doing this very same thing.

[ellacraig]

@lotus

balls missing bronzed and hanging from the rear view - lol your soo funny. Needed a laugh today

Ps im not and have no opinions on the matter at hand, just reading cause im a slack employee, and id rather read BN than actually DO any work!

[Lotus]

@lotus

balls missing bronzed and hanging from the rear view - lol your soo funny. Needed a laugh today

Ps im not and have no opinions on the matter at hand, just reading cause im a slack employee, and id rather read BN than actually DO any work!

Haha, and thanks Ella. Well, I did say she was my favorite ball buster. Honestly, I think she won't be satisfied until she has all the straight men's balls and moobs from BN mounted on her wall, or maybe on the toe hitch of a 4x4 truck, sort of a sick and twisted celebration admiring her wall of balls, (polished and bronzed of course).


@sarah, I think you're a secret sadist, , and I mean that in a loving way, (of course).

[ellacraig]

As for this thread being "hijacked," think again Lotus.
Do you really think it's fair for Hurricane to only hear from those like yourself???
It doesn't really help him. He needs perspective from all corners.

Super, let's tell him that he's selfish and unnecessary, oh, I almost forgot, go ahead and get divorced, that's great life advice, very inspiring. How can I possibly top that perspective.

Lmao, tibetan's and your exchanges are the only entertaining part of this forum anymore for me.

Thank you.

Thats why i came in too

Respect to both of them too btw