[kazooie]

What are the main differences between taking fenugreek seed capsules and fenugreek extract capsules? I'm assuming extract is of higher concentration but I'm not sure.

I noticed the local organic grocery store has Natural Factors Fenugreek Seed, anyone know if this is a brand I should stay away from for whatever reason? Also final question, should I expect breast/gyna development from taking fenugreek on its own?

[KellyT]

1. Fast, ready absorption. The body does not need to break down a liquid extract, allowing more of the medicinal properties to be absorbed into the system. The body generally uses 98% of liquid extracts.
2. Easy to digest. Liquid extracts take 1-4 minutes to assimilate.
3. Greater potency. This makes an extract much more powerful than a capsule or tablet. It could take 20 capsules to equal a daily dose of 1 for some extracts.
4. Longer shelf life.
In order for any nutrient to reach the cells of the body, it must first be suspended in a solution. Or in other words it must be liquid. As a rule, the nearer a herbal preparation approaches the liquid form, the quicker and more completely it will assimilate and take effect in your body. Medical studies have shown that liquid extracts have faster absorption rates; higher optimization rates and is more easily digestible.
•One of the primary benefits of using liquid herbal extracts is that they do not require digestion. You don't need to extract what is medicinal from the plant cellulose before it can be absorbed because it's already been done for you.
•The body does not need to break down a liquid extract, allowing more of the medicinal properties to be absorbed into the system. This makes liquid extract much more powerful than a capsule or tablet.
•When using capsules or tablets, the body must first extract or break down the medicinal properties of the herb to put them in liquid form in the stomach.
•Liquid extracts take 1-4 minutes to assimilate.
•Capsules or tablets (pills) can take from 20-30 minutes just to break down, before the body can even start to assimilate them.

Source: http://www.hhcextracts.com/liquids/

As far as using fenugreek alone, I have no idea.

[Lotus]

That's nice work Kelly,

Don't forget, extracts (liquid) will concentrate in target tissues (e.g. breasts). It's important to find a carrier to speed up cell diffusion, EFA's (essential fatty acids) fit the bill, my favorite is coconut oil, (fat soluble). It's been shown that FAS help hormones (chaperone) to these target tissues.

Understand it takes more than just gulping down 3000 mg PM a day to grow breasts, progesterone and estradiol with enhance elongation and side branching. Calcium Ca2 plays an important role in "the regulation of calcium" through the intercellular signaling of Ca2 (calcium). They also act as a second messenger, (aka- signaling cascades), and speaking of second messengers I'm seeing them as another mediator of NBE,

(intracellular signaling molecules released by the cell to trigger physiological changes such as proliferation, differentiation, migration, survival, and apoptosis.)

.....a second messenger, in neurotransmitter release from neurons, in contraction of all muscle cell types, and in fertilization. Many enzymes require calcium ions as a cofactor, those of the blood-clotting cascade being notable examples.

calcium-dependent kinases, and releases arachidonic acid, which is a precursor to eicosanoids and other signaling agents. Arachidonic acid, through its conversion to several eicosanoids, regulates a number of cell processes through protein kinase C pathways, (arachidonic acid) is mediated by PGE2, (prostaglandin cyclic fatty acid compounds with varying hormone like effects).

Yikes!!, sorry kazooie, I went way off OP, seeds contain all the properties we want for NBE. And FG is FAT, protein, 5 ar (anti-DHT) and estroegenic/progestrogenic.

Progestin-dependent effect of forskolin on human endometrial aromatase acitivity
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content...1.abstract

Incidentally,

Endogenous avg. produced daily (males)

MEN
-Hormone ( FSH): 2 - 18 mIU/ml
-Testosterone 3mg to 10mg (daily)
-Prolactin 7 - 18 ng/ml
-FT-Free T is about 2% (this is the functional T)
-BT-Bound T or 98%
-Albumin 38% (bloodstream)
-SHBG is 60% (sex-hormone-binding-globulin)
-DHT approximately 7% of T is reduced by 5 ar
-Estradiol approximately 0.3% of testosterone is converted into E2 by aromatase (CYP19A1) of that 0.3%, 20% is directly produced by the testes. Roughly 60% of circulating estradiol is derived from direct testicular secretion or from conversion of testicular androgens. The remaining fraction is derived from peripheral conversion of adrenal androgens. The serum levels of estradiol in males (14 - 55 pg/mL) are roughly comparable to those of postmenopausal women (< 35 pg/mL).

[kazooie]

Thanks for the replies!

Lotus, it was a bit hard for me to take in everything you said but am I correctly understanding that Fenugreek Extract will target breast tissue moreso than Fenugreek Seed?

We've spoken quite a bit so as you know I'm mainly interested in decreasing visceral fat and getting my body to store subcutaneous fat, as well as growth in my hips/butt. I'm much less interested in growing breasts and so I'm wondering how big an impact Fenugreek (seed or extract) will have on breast tissue growth. At this point in time, I would happily settle with my body prioritizing subcutaneous fat over visceral fat as the only result if that's all I can get.

[Lotus]

Thanks for the replies!

Lotus, it was a bit hard for me to take in everything you said but am I correctly understanding that Fenugreek Extract will target breast tissue moreso than Fenugreek Seed?

We've spoken quite a bit so as you know I'm mainly interested in decreasing visceral fat and getting my body to store subcutaneous fat, as well as growth in my hips/butt. I'm much less interested in growing breasts and so I'm wondering how big an impact Fenugreek (seed or extract) will have on breast tissue growth. At this point in time, I would happily settle with my body prioritizing subcutaneous fat over visceral fat as the only result if that's all I can get.

Hi Kazooie,

The seeds have the highest properties (phytos) a tea preparation is made from the seeds, the extract can be combined with a carrier oil for breast application. To reduce visceral fat consider a green tea supplement, which also benefits NBE, cancer prevention too, (plus about a dozen other things).

Edit-sorry about the other geeky stuff.

[kazooie]

Thanks for the replies!

Lotus, it was a bit hard for me to take in everything you said but am I correctly understanding that Fenugreek Extract will target breast tissue moreso than Fenugreek Seed?

We've spoken quite a bit so as you know I'm mainly interested in decreasing visceral fat and getting my body to store subcutaneous fat, as well as growth in my hips/butt. I'm much less interested in growing breasts and so I'm wondering how big an impact Fenugreek (seed or extract) will have on breast tissue growth. At this point in time, I would happily settle with my body prioritizing subcutaneous fat over visceral fat as the only result if that's all I can get.

Hi Kazooie,

The seeds have the highest properties (phytos) a tea preparation is made from the seeds, the extract can be combined with a carrier oil for breast application. To reduce visceral fat consider a green tea supplement, which also benefits NBE, cancer prevention too, (plus about a dozen other things).

Edit-sorry about the other geeky stuff.

Does drinking store bought green tea count or does it need to be something more specific?