(12-04-2016, 05:19 AM)Fire And Ice Wrote: (11-04-2016, 07:48 PM)Dianna1395 Wrote: Well, I'll answer anyway. ;-)
I hope my long-winded response hasn't been too much. :-)
-Dianna
Wow Dianna, you said a mouthful! 
Thank you very much for your insight. It was long, but appreciated. I don't think I am ready for any large group encounters. I am just not comfortable with that idea. As for bars and such, I'm not much of a social butterfly. It takes a quite a bit of effort for me to open up and be social. Sure, here it's easy, but in person, I am way too shy, and passive.
As for any involvement with my wife, that's not going to happen. She is a bit on the conservative side. I joke with her about wearing women's clothes now and again just because her clothes fit me, and she gets pretty negatively vocal about it. She does not appreciate it one bit.
So for me the idea of transitioning is REALLY far fetched. Parents that would disown me, a wife that would probably leave me, just doesn't seem like the right thing for me. There just really isn't an easy answer, I will have to settle for what I can get. How far I am willing to go to get what I want varies. 
(11-04-2016, 07:50 PM)Dianna1395 Wrote: Yeah - did the same with my family over the last 20 years.
Never went well.
:-P
-D
My parents are pretty darn close minded. There is no understanding of this. There is no grey, there is no middle. There is no Bi, you're just gay. Transitioning, I would be a freak to them. I would be abnormal. I hear the way they talk, and gossip, and it drives me nuts. I have no idea how I turned out to be so different considering what I grew up with. 
(11-04-2016, 07:59 PM)Dianna1395 Wrote: This sounds a little more... complex, then.
It might make sense to look for a professional domme to talk to, and trolling the "sissy" blogs might help, too. The idea being, find a lugubrious sissy-type or woman who has some "flexibility" in her outlook, and warmth towards the unusual.
It's NOT suggesting a sexual or "professional" encounter, though. Just a discussion with someone who could be trusted a bit, and provide some insight. Then from there, maybe a gay club on Drag night? Be the quiet guy in the background, say, and talk to the queens now and then, to get yourself some socialization. And then, plan and proceed as appropriate.
I'd think it's no different from going to a strip club to ogle the women. You won't be going home with them, but you might get to chat with them a bit, on a good night. And you could certainly bring the wife along for the spectacle, and to get her opinions and feelings afterwards (I.E., make her included and play to her feelings/needs for security and safety.)
-Dianna
Not many drag places where I live, though there are gay bars. Went once long ago with friends, but I am just too socially awkward. I'm already submissive enough, I am not sure visiting with a domme is going to do me much good. Plus I'm sure the Mrs. would not like that one bit! 
I have found that the best laid out plans are bound to go to hell in a hand basket, so I don't bother. I mostly wing it and let the chips land where they may. Also in my case most of the time it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Hi, Fire,
I have no plan in answering this, so I may meander.
WRT a domme, I was thinking a friendly visit, not a scene or session. Talk like girls over tea, coffee, or wine. I'm thinking along the lines of Gil Grissom and Lady Heather. Not a "professional" relationship. That might set the wife's mind at ease... Might make it worse. You're closer, you need to decide. I think it might be helpful, due to a shared set of interests. Also gets "girl time" in, regardless of how you're dressed.
There are ways to work on social awkwardness. Biggest problem I think we have (and it's a big "we") is that we care. We don't want to look stupid, draw attention, let anyone know our oddities. Truth is - most people don't care. And if they DID, they would probably use it against us, sure. Been there, done that. Didn't implement the "sucking chest wound" strategy, but I wanted to ...
But that becomes a negative cycle: We hold back, end up acting strange, and people pick up on the vibe, and find "something" wrong to pick on us for.
We can turn that around by being more energetic, less self-obsessed, get outside our heads a bit. It takes lots of time and lots of practice. Look at Pick-up artist sites, you'll find drills that will help. And then, it's turning things around. (Or, you could do the concept of the pick up artist exercises, and reverse it. Idea is to get out and practice social fluency. Grocery shopping and getting coffee counts. Pick up the barrista. Talk fashion with the cashier. Etc.)
Even if you see them daily, who cares? You had an awkward conversation, but you learned something. Next time won't be as awkward, so it is a success. And if you're thinking, "But (s)he'll remember and it'll be MORE awkard!" Even if that was true, who cares? He/She/IT (animals count too) may or may not recall, but if it's consistently odd, you'll just get classified as "weird, but harmless." If it's improving, you'll soon fade from memory - or even be, "that funny guy/girl who always has something to say."
There's nothing gained by retreating in this scenario. You just end up isolated. Take it from someone who IS isolated. (I can make friends just fine, I can flirt just fine, I just can't bring any friends to meet the girlfriend because she has to DOMINATE everything.... So she can be very entertaining, but never stops for a breath - so others can't talk. And she's the jealous type, too.)
Parents, I think I wrote elsewhere, would disown me if they knew I was on this board. Dad died estranged, mom is estranged, my sister actively hates me. (No forgiveness in her heart.) They don't know about this... Don't understand that men are attracted to women, but that that is shorthand for, "Masculine men like feminine women, and women in the US are basically taught to be aggressive, domineering, masculine @$$holes." I can't believe that there are millions of men out there who are all just THAT socially inept. Makes more sense that we were taught wrong tactics and techniques, same as the women are taught they can be and do anything, and do it better than a man, and so while they're busy showing off how great they are - men are quietly leaving. I don't want a woman who's been with 10 or 15 men... and I've read that many have more like a 100-notch count...
Put the parents shaming and parental sheltering and parental control together with inverted social designs, inverting male and feminine, and female and masculine, (a recipe for destruction since time began, but useful for selling people stuff they don't need at prices they cannot afford with money they don't have...) - I'm amazed I turned out THIS good.
Got to learn the game, though, or we don't have a prayer of getting to a better place. (However you define it.)
It's funny, too, because for all the woman's professed Liberal tendencies, I'm comparatively Conservative (caps are important) - but then, when she actually has to put up of shut up, I'm the one who seems to do the heavy lifting, and she stands off to the side and mocks. I'm sorry to be cruel, but women... Don't think. I know I'll get buried, but it's the shorthand for what's happening. "Team Woman," basically. What benefits her (and possibly her offspring) is good, and anything else is secondary. And it's not a conscious thing - not evil. Just "how they're wired." In other news, water is wet and fire burns.
The manosphere is full of this commentary, and I won't belabor it here.
What it means, though is: she's not able to feel secure, she's afraid that you're gay, or will leave her, or she'll lose you, etc, etc, etc. "Sleep of reason produces monsters." But our society (consumerism) is predicated on making people perceive wants and needs, and then selling them "The Cure For Their Fears/Wants/Needs."
Think of every advertisement you see on TV, you'll see the car ads that show beautiful women (market sex to guys), ooze wealth (sex, indirectly, and success signal), or a car on a mountaintop (independence, ruggedness, freedom)... Or, for women, a "hot guy" (who she's able to extract resources from...), or a party, or fun. Often blended together.
She wants resources (money, time, attention). She wants security, both in social station (pack order) and physically (woman is weak compared to man). We've "outsourced" a fair amount, BTW, with police all over, and our "Go GRRL" society, and we're throwing away all the signals of femininity (dresses, corsets, even foundation wear, allowing the hippos out of their river basin.. )
We need to do what we can - I can't even make suggestions here. But if a man acts towards a woman the way woman acts towards man?
She'll attack his person.
And female on male violence is, "He deserved it." (There have been studies done. You'll find it re-run on the news from time to time, or hidden camera shows.)
To get ahead of this, you need to connect with her well, communicate well, and reassure her in various ways. You can even do things in "backwards" fashion, depending on your desired outcome. I.E., Poly- relationships, or belittling yourself WRT size, strength, maleness. (To get her away from seeing you as her protector and provider.)
The other alternative, MIGHT work (hasn't for me), is to push her to be more and more feminine and submissive. Re-frame things so she sees more differences between her as feminine and you as "femasculine." I think that would be a tough thing to accomplish, but, you might have the skills to do it. (Another reason to seek out a domme or even dominant and talk, just talk, about the psychology.)
A few ugly things I found in my 10-year relationshit here:
- If I gave, she would take. Everything.
- If I was weak, I was ridiculed.
- If I ignored the bad behavior, it was amplified.
Because it was supposed to be temporary, I didn't correct things early on. I didn't set myself as "the authority" - so she did as she wanted, and I allowed it, and then I'd lost control of the whole situation. Like training a dog, allow it on the bed once, and it's allowed on the bed, PERIOD.
So I stopped caring. I "Gave" the attitude and the coldness and the verbal attacks back, and I didn't care. After all,she's not the love of my life....
Took some time, but it's at least some semblance of humanity now.
It took years, though - and I was STILL thinking she'd eventually leave, especially since I was being an @$$hole.
It's been another 5 years, and I've proven that, short of attacking her, it's impossible to treat a woman badly enough that she'll leave. Probably even true of attacking her, see how women go back to their abusers, but...
I am not going to try it. Even I won't cross that line.
You can take that and roll with it, though. I.E., you tell her "the law", and let her make up her mind. Positive reinforcement when she acts as you want; indifference the rest of the time. Negative reinforcement won't work. Just ignore bad behavior. But lavish attention and praise when she does what you want.
After a while, praise less & demand more. Say, you've gotten her to wear a dress regularly. Next thing you want is for her to wear stockings. As she gets used to wearing a dress all the time, you praise her only when she looks exceptionally pretty. But also slip in comments about how sexy she'd look in stockings. When she wears the stockings, go wild, praise her, and make her take them off, if you follow my meaning (give her a good reward, and pair it with good feelings. Emotions help secure the mental state.)
Expand on the "for instance" there for whatever you need.
And don't feel bad about it, women talk about training men all the time. You're just using their own tactics against them.
You can apply similar techniques to get her to want you in lingerie, or with breasts... Takes time, and not guaranteed - but over time, you can tune her a bit. I've got all sorts of failed attempts, but it's more of the submissive side in me. I don't WANT to be a domineering @$$hole - but I have to be a dick these days.
We'll see how she does, she's in counseling now.
I'm trying to not lose it... But you know, when she talks about doing X, Y, Z with someone in her past - and won't do it with you?
You feel used. And thus, all tactics are fair. If you're going to be used, might as well get something for it.
But had I not allowed that dog on the bed in the first place, she wouldn't be a bitch today.
Think it through, take what's good, dump the rest, and determine where you want to end up. Lots of "alternative" arrangements might work to meet both your needs, too, but we're getting WAY too far off the topic to discuss on list. I'll ping you a link or two for consideration, just as a seed. You'll have to determine how she would respond, and see where it goes.
-Dianna
