[tanysquirrel]

just came across this article... very disheartening

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/05/02...amendment/

[tanysquirrel]

and then this one too

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/05/06...t-lawsuit/

[ScarletBloom]

Well, that was 2 really sad reads

It sucks to know that humanity won't be growing up in my lifetime...

[jamiemason]

TG issues in America are far from being under control. It makes me wonder if TG people just came along - or, if we have always been there peeing right next to you, you never knew it????

I just will never understand the stupidity of some.. (sigh)

@ScarletBloom:

Totally agree..

[tanysquirrel]

What would be really cool, is if the new planets that they discovered, that can sustain human life, were populated by transgendered people , that would be like wow we better respect those transgendered people already among us .

I know in some cultures, particularly Native American, Transgendered people were considered magical, or dual-spirited and were/are treated with utmost respect.

Hirjas are another group who also suffer,mostly in poverty . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

[VergeOfDiscovery]

Funny, I've made some mashup animations of exactly that. Although in this scenario they enlisted humans to satisfy their every need!

Dual-spirited is a good way to put it. Something to be admired.

[Dianna1395]

TG issues in America are far from being under control. It makes me wonder if TG people just came along - or, if we have always been there peeing right next to you, you never knew it????

I just will never understand the stupidity of some.. (sigh)

@ScarletBloom:

Totally agree..

My understanding is, we've always been around.
However, we've never had the opportunity to express ourselves (much) in Judaeo-Christian societies until sometime after 1950s. (I am of course excluding cross-gender behavior in gay culture, which may or may not have had any connection to transgender activity.)
Crossdressing predates, and that part is known.... So maybe I just contradicted myself? Dunno - I figure it's all speculation.

What I can tell is, men don't like to unknowingly have sex with men. Most will see even a post-op T-gurl (spelling intentional) as "a man" in this context. Now we can go stealth.... It's seen as deception. Never mind that there have ALWAYS been women who couldn't bear children! (It's the deception aspect, I think.)

Personally, I believe we've always been around. Too many stories, legends, even goddesses. (Hermaphrodite from Greek; Aphrodite was a goddess, but maybe there's more to the stories...?)

But since we can now make the body change to match the mind, we have OPTIONS that didn't exist before.
Imagine a world where you can't change body to match mind. Where mental illness is a mark of God's hatred or the Devil's work. And where homosexuality is also evil and demonic or devilish.
I don't think many people worry about the "oddities" the same way we police ourselves now. Someone who is odd? Leaves by choice or is driven out. (One of the reasons carnies have such a bad reputation... Travellers of that sort were often aberrant in other ways, too, and used their nomadic lifestyle to escape prosecution. Others were "odd" and so chased away. Some were psychopaths.... )

Problem is, at an animal level, people think all "deviations" are automatically a problem (I.E., all "blacks" are psychopaths, to make the point. Like how gingers have no soul, all Irish - that's me - are drunks, etc.) They don't differentiate between the brainiac who does double integral calculus in his head for fun, and the retarded 30-year-old Ox-in-a-human-body who could pass for Superman (in the bad way, as in Lenny in "Of Mice and Men"), and Hannibal Lecter.... In fact, they'll welcome Hannibal longer, because the psychopath plays to people's emotions. SEEMS normal...
"Normal" people see our oddities - tics, enhanced chests, shaving our legs, avoiding "manly" activities, no interest in sports, etc - and think we've got some sort of "disease" they need to keep away from loved ones to keep the herd safe.
I feel it is essential to pity these people. Forgive them their idiocies. Until they try to impose their will on us, and then all bets are off. I have rights, too, and chief among them is right to life. And right to self-defense. And if the result is you DON'T get to live? You instigated.

All I want from them in return is the same tolerance and compassion. For example, gay partners couldn't see their partner in the hospital. WTF? Why not? couldn't be recognized as a spouse for inheritance reasons. Why not? WHAT purpose does this sort of abuse serve? (Insert anti-government / self-ownership rant here.)
OTOH, calling the relationship "marriage" cheapens and dilutes the intent and meaning of marriage (the purpose is to from a stable relationship to have children. Gay relations cannot have children, therefore... And while history may have been altered through surrogacy and artificial insemination, I don't see a reason to redefine the term marriage. But for god's sake, don't treat them like lepers, either! Have compassion. Isn't that a primary tenet of Christianity? Are these people not FAILING that key tenet through their actions? )

Our society needs to grow up a lot. But forcing it (I.E., Leftist ideology to MANDATE "respect" - the same as having someone put a gun to your head, and telling you, "Respect me now." - where respect is measured as adulation & worship?) That is complete idiocy, too. Makes for more problems, like, oh, REVOLUTION....? War, Anarchy in the warring states concept...

-Dianna

[jamiemason]

TG issues in America are far from being under control. It makes me wonder if TG people just came along - or, if we have always been there peeing right next to you, you never knew it????

I just will never understand the stupidity of some.. (sigh)

@ScarletBloom:

Totally agree..

My understanding is, we've always been around.
However, we've never had the opportunity to express ourselves (much) in Judaeo-Christian societies until sometime after 1950s. (I am of course excluding cross-gender behavior in gay culture, which may or may not have had any connection to transgender activity.)
Crossdressing predates, and that part is known.... So maybe I just contradicted myself? Dunno - I figure it's all speculation.

What I can tell is, men don't like to unknowingly have sex with men. Most will see even a post-op T-gurl (spelling intentional) as "a man" in this context. Now we can go stealth.... It's seen as deception. Never mind that there have ALWAYS been women who couldn't bear children! (It's the deception aspect, I think.)

Personally, I believe we've always been around. Too many stories, legends, even goddesses. (Hermaphrodite from Greek; Aphrodite was a goddess, but maybe there's more to the stories...?)

But since we can now make the body change to match the mind, we have OPTIONS that didn't exist before.
Imagine a world where you can't change body to match mind. Where mental illness is a mark of God's hatred or the Devil's work. And where homosexuality is also evil and demonic or devilish.
I don't think many people worry about the "oddities" the same way we police ourselves now. Someone who is odd? Leaves by choice or is driven out. (One of the reasons carnies have such a bad reputation... Travellers of that sort were often aberrant in other ways, too, and used their nomadic lifestyle to escape prosecution. Others were "odd" and so chased away. Some were psychopaths.... )

Problem is, at an animal level, people think all "deviations" are automatically a problem (I.E., all "blacks" are psychopaths, to make the point. Like how gingers have no soul, all Irish - that's me - are drunks, etc.) They don't differentiate between the brainiac who does double integral calculus in his head for fun, and the retarded 30-year-old Ox-in-a-human-body who could pass for Superman (in the bad way, as in Lenny in "Of Mice and Men"), and Hannibal Lecter.... In fact, they'll welcome Hannibal longer, because the psychopath plays to people's emotions. SEEMS normal...
"Normal" people see our oddities - tics, enhanced chests, shaving our legs, avoiding "manly" activities, no interest in sports, etc - and think we've got some sort of "disease" they need to keep away from loved ones to keep the herd safe.
I feel it is essential to pity these people. Forgive them their idiocies. Until they try to impose their will on us, and then all bets are off. I have rights, too, and chief among them is right to life. And right to self-defense. And if the result is you DON'T get to live? You instigated.

All I want from them in return is the same tolerance and compassion. For example, gay partners couldn't see their partner in the hospital. WTF? Why not? couldn't be recognized as a spouse for inheritance reasons. Why not? WHAT purpose does this sort of abuse serve? (Insert anti-government / self-ownership rant here.)
OTOH, calling the relationship "marriage" cheapens and dilutes the intent and meaning of marriage (the purpose is to from a stable relationship to have children. Gay relations cannot have children, therefore... And while history may have been altered through surrogacy and artificial insemination, I don't see a reason to redefine the term marriage. But for god's sake, don't treat them like lepers, either! Have compassion. Isn't that a primary tenet of Christianity? Are these people not FAILING that key tenet through their actions? )

Our society needs to grow up a lot. But forcing it (I.E., Leftist ideology to MANDATE "respect" - the same as having someone put a gun to your head, and telling you, "Respect me now." - where respect is measured as adulation & worship?) That is complete idiocy, too. Makes for more problems, like, oh, REVOLUTION....? War, Anarchy in the warring states concept...

-Dianna

The divide between TG's and society in general is far, no doubt. Men who CD are still seen as perverse and sick. Gender isn't accepted as a feeling or relation. We've been taught that way since the dawn of time it seems - the 1950's housewife? Male dominance, female submission. Roles are, and have been defined by society since creation.

It's sad really. The stares I get sometimes in guy mode, with shaven legs by others who are shocked or confused or (whatever they're thinking) It makes you feel insure, and further embarrassed about who you are...

[Naomiko]

Here's some hope, even contains some common sense I think:

Ottawa considers gender-neutral restrooms

I mean, If the big scary thing about trans access is privacy...then replace the stalls that make it possible to peep in the first place. Floor to ceiling, no cracks...easy peasy.

This topic has started to become a hot button issue with me. I remember a few months ago, trolls were listing names of high profile convicts as examples why trans shouldn't be allowed access -- except if anyone googled the names they would find their crimes had nothing to do with anti-discrimination laws, didn't take place near a women's facility, or the 'example' wasn't remotely trans.

Then they started listing somewhat related incidents, except they claimed these incidents recently happened 'as a result of allowing trans access'. A quick google fact-check later...oh they actually occurred from 3 up to 26 years ago -- before anti-discrimination laws were even in place.

Now the A.F.A. (American Family Association) are sending anti-LGBT cis-males into restrooms to cause issues. I guess if your claims and examples keep getting debunked, then it's time to invent one...

Problem is they've been using the same excuse to try and prevent any civil rights movement. Allow coloured people to use "whites only" facilities? That'll put white women and children at risk fear-mong fear-mong. Gays and lesbians in bathrooms and as troop leaders? That'll put children at risk fear-mong fear-mong. Allow trans folks to use the bathrooms of their identity (as most have been doing for years)? Nope, women and children fear-mong fear-mong.

Common sense gun control laws? That's absurd! Criminals don't obey laws...
Trans access to identified facilities? Quick, make laws prohibiting access to stop criminals...

AFAIK and researched, there were 4 legitimate incidents (1 in Canada, 3 in the US) of cis-males donning women's clothing and going into a women's facility, that took place between 1990 and 2016. None of them took advantage of anti-discrimination laws as they hadn't been implemented. The 3 Americans didn't claim to be trans, they were only donning a disguise to avoid detection. In the case of the Canadian, he claimed to be trans -- however -- it was because he also claimed to be in imminent danger which is why he was given access to a shelter. He didn't take advantage of any anti-discrimination laws, he simply took advantage of people's trust and good nature.

The problem with the logic of claiming predators will dress as trans women to gain access to women's facilities, is that A) It's much simpler to simply walk in as is claiming to be a transman, and B) it perpetuates rape stereotypes:

According to RAINN and FBI statistics, 85-90% of rapists KNOW their victims. Large majority of assaults take place in or within 1 mile of the victim's home or at a friend's. Less than 18% of assaults take place in a public area such as bus depots, subways, parking lots, alleys, parks...neither source specifically lists bathrooms as an example.

Another issue that has arose in places that prohibit trans access, cis-women are getting harassed and/or kicked out of establishments because they either "look butch" or "was dressed like a man". The 1950's called, they want their sexist stereotypes back.

Furthermore, anti-trans legislation perpetuates harassing, assaulting, raping, and/or murdering trans and non-binary individuals by restricting their access to unsafe facilities while anti-trans propaganda promotes it.

I believe that the future of civilization will eventually have universal facilities (as seen in Starship Troopers). That's definitely not the immediate future. For now, I believe that Ottawa is on the right track -- at least for the interim. There will still be those who are ignorant, fearful, and hateful. Options aren't a bad thing until society is a little more enlightened so long as there isn't discrimination or prohibition against those that are comfortable using facilities that correspond with their gender opposed to birth genitalia.

I dedicate this song to the fear-mongering politicians.

Then you encounter anti-LGBT folks who cite religion against us. Most generally quote (if at all) {Deuteronomy 22:5} "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

When considering this argument, one must also consider Genesis and the story of creation. In Genesis, God created Adam and Eve. He didn't create or give them masculine or feminine attire and exclaim "Thou shall not wear each other's clothing". Adam and Eve were nude. It wasn't until they ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge that Adam and Eve came to know modesty and shame and quickly covered themselves -- thus clothing was born from the original sin, and -- technically speaking -- could be considered against God.

Another tidbit to consider; Adam was created from the ashes and dust of the Earth whereas Eve was created from Adam's rib -- a women was made from a male body.

Anyway, other counter-quotes for 'trans are wrong cause of the Bible' arguments: {Matthew 19:12} "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." {James 5:9} {James 4:12} {Galatians 3:28} are some other good verses. I don't worship the Bible or belong to a Christ-based theology.

Global and Historic Gender Primer

I could get into the histories but I think I went seriously over-board with this post and it's already lengthy as it is lol.

As for Trump supporting trans access, I don't really think that's 100% the case. Trump is a business man. The only thing he cares about more than himself, is money. North Carolina served as an example of all the businesses and corporations boycotting the state for it's discriminatory laws. Trump sees this and understands "Hm, this policy is bad for business -- it loses money". His other motivation is to win over voters, especially after his "punish women and doctors for abortions" statement.

Anyway, it's a rough road and not something that will be resolved quickly. Just like every other civil rights movement, it'll take time for most of the hate and fear to subside. But people are starting to question, especially when you have the A.F.A. pulling stunts and anti-LGBT politicians getting accused, charged, and/or convicted of sex-related offences. I don't think the anti-LGBT agenda needs a shovel, but let's throw them an extra one or two anyway.

[Naomiko]

Just wanted to share a bright side video, in case anyone has missed it: (24 mins)

Justice Department Response to North Carolina Lawsuit