Hey all! I'm new and i've been lurking for the past week looking at peoples personal regimens and other general discussions, but I'm still a bit confused as to what might work for me. I'm 20 years old, gender fluid, and was born a male. My main goal here is to lower androgen levels and bring up estrogen levels. I don't exactly want breast growth, but I don't mind if it happens to an extent. I also want to stay away from PM because, as I've read here, it can cause some people who question their gender to go past a point of no return. I'm not looking to transition to female, as many on PM wish to do. That being said, I am looking into taking just saw palmetto, fenugreek, and either hops or red clover. I went to the store today to look at SP and FG and was very confused by the different options. What is the difference between the herb capsules and the gel extract capsules for SP? Is it just that I'd have to take more of the herb capsules or is there something about the extract that is better? Also, what would be a good dose of SP and FG? I've seen posts on here of anywhere between 600 mg and over 3000 so I'm a bit confused. Again, I'm not focused on breast growth, but I don't mind if some occurs, I'm just looking to lower my androgens and increase estrogen. Thanks in advance, and I welcome any other suggestions as to what I might want to take.

While I can't help you with your dosages, I can weigh in on PM. PM doesn't flip this switch inside of you and make you want to become a woman. That more stems from a persons gender dysphoria. There are plenty of people on here on PM that have no desire to transition whose goal is gender fluidity.

I've been doing this for almost a year and half and well over a year on PM and currently still have no desire to transition. I stayed away from PM at the beginning for fears of things I read, but everyone responds differently, and for me, I am beginning to achieve the results I desire.

Anyways, welcome to the forum and I hope you are able to find the answers you are looking for.

If your main goal is to decrease androgens then you want to focus on anti-androgens. For a strong but inexpensive option on that there's angelica gigas (kakai), which can be found in two different formula's as an extract, which I've mentioned over in the main herbs forum, the one way back outside the male specific area. Those are the products its in that I know about btw, there may be some others I haven't found. Angelica gigas works by being a potent androgen receptor antagonist, meaning, it competes for androgen receptors without actually activating them. It will potentially block all androgen activity at a potent enough dose, which is actually dangerous, don't go that far.

Another option that's not quite as inexpensive is reishi mushroom, but you HAVE to get one of the more expensive double-extraction extracts, whole mushroom is completely worthless as anything except fiber, hot-water-only extracts are only good for anti-cancer, only hot-alcohol extraction gains access to the triterpenes that are potent 5AR inhibitors. By inhibiting 5AR, you prevent testosterone from being reduced into dihydrotestosterone, the more potent form, which will reverse much of the masculinization of androgens without blocking the necessary androgens for basic health.

If you aren't averse to using pharmaceutical drugs you can actually get dutasteride more cheaply than any potent enough reishi product from AllDayChemist.

If you also want some slight feminization, by all means add some estrogens as well. One of the other herbs in one of the angelica gigas containing formulas is estrogenic, btw.