[WolfandLace]

Hey everyone,

I'm way new here but I've been delving into some of the archived threads to gain insight into all your expertise and insights from your own personal journeys. There's plenty I have yet to read so please feel free to post links to other threads/posts that may already have answers to any questions I may present in this post.


So, my profile has a pretty in-depth bio of me so feel free to read up on that if you're looking for any info on my personal life although I'm always open to other questions if you feel there's more you'd like to know (I'm fairly open about my life when I can remain semi anonymous online) but I'll admit I'm terrible at quick responses so please don't get upset if you don't hear back from me right away. I'm actually traveling through Europe right now and wifi is limited, just another nail in the coffin for me :/ but damn the sights are great and the ladies fashion is absolutely killer, seriously the number of outfits I've seen the ladies wearing that I'd love the chance to rock on the streets is to die for.

Anyways, I'm posting because I've been trying to pat down an NBE regiment for myself to do more "total" feminization of my body, not just breasts but hips, waist, and possibly face as well without using traditional HRT since that's a little too "final" for me as well as expensive as well as difficult to pin down a doctor I could even see in my area, I know they're out there, I'm a 20 min drive from Atlanta, so seriously any advice on clinics/doctors in the area that don't require therapy sessions and can keep the costs down, hit me with any knowledge you have and I'll see if it's a better option over NBE. But I'm leaning toward NBE since it's somewhat reversible to a degree and it's something I can have more control of rather than hoping a professional can understand my point of view after I fail to articulate what it is I'm after. I don't want SRS (at least I don't think so); I had heavily considered/dreamed of the possibility of HRT and SRS but in the end it never quite felt right, I'd miss my dangly bits and so would my SO if she would even stick around if I were to follow that route.

So that brings up another important note: I would like to keep the majority of function downstairs intact. I enjoy sex as a man and my daily life as a man but would want to be able to experience life in the opposite/different gender when I chose to do so. In the end if NBE were even successful, I might even experience life as a ftm crossdresser and have to bind my chest to go into male mode, seems interesting and totally worth it to me; life is all about our experiences IMO.

So enough of my rambling, here's what I have been compiling thus far:

PM capsules: 1650mg/day over 3 doses; 3 weeks on and 1 week off (more/less?; work up to it/start here and ramp up; different cycle for on/off?)
PM Serum (cream/both?): can't find a good brand I trust for these, maybe Swiss Botanicals but they sound iffy; regardless twice a day plus massage if anyone has a good product they can attest to

BO: 750mg/day over 3 doses (same cycle on/off as PM or just low dose on the off cycle and same inquiry as PM; plus should I take these together at all since I have read conflicting info about their interactions) I had actually used these together for a few weeks and got swelling behind the nipple which also expanded about twice its size and got sore but it started showing too much through my work clothes so I quit but now I gots a new job with a much more relaxed wardrobe option so here we go again c;

Women's Multivitamin: 1/day (found a good organic one with some extra biotin and goodies added in)

Protein: organic, not whey or soy; meal replacement morning and post workout (more like meal addition; I only really eat once a day and have coffee maybe in the morning but I have already started to cut out caffeine entirely starting a few weeks ago)

White Peony: 500mg/day (more or less?; read that it's good for aromatase might take post workout rather than in the morning)

Evening Primrose Oil: 1000mg/day (more/less?) again post workout possibly switch every other day with WP but leaning toward taking together every day

Borage Oil: 1000mg/day (more/less?) again post workout possibly every other day unless recommended otherwise

Maca: 500mg/day morning and pre workout (more/less?)

Milk Thistle: 500mg/day maybe every other day in the evening (more/less?)

Chinese Skullcap: 400mg/day in the evening (may not use this and stick with milk thistle or use these on as an on/off switch between the two: one day MT and the next CS rinse, repeat)

Spearmint: 400mg/day (more/less?)

Reishi: 900mg/day every other day (more/less?)

Oat Extract: 970mg/day because I literally hate oats and refuse to eat them (useful or not? Heard it could be good for something from a thread in here somewhere but I forgot what)

Vitamin D: 5000IU/day (every other day, multi vitamin has 1000) think I read it can help aromatase

K2 MK-7: 100mcg/day (every other day; multivitamin again has this) to balance Vit D

Vitamin C: 1000mg/day (every other day; multi vit again)

Horny Goat Weed: 1000mg/day pre or post workout

Workout routine:

Cardio: 30 min every day, approx 5 miles running
Push-ups: 5 sets 15-25 reps
Squats (w/ weights): 5 sets 15-25 reps
High Kicks: 5 sets 15-25 reps
High Knees: 5 sets 15-25 reps
Side Kicks: 5 sets 15-25 reps
Punches (w/ weights): 5 sets 15-25 reps
Crunches/Sit-ups: 5 sets 15-25 reps
Yoga Stretches: need to research good stretches for my core and legs and chest (advice welcome!)

Please let me know what you guys think!

And don't hesitate to tell me that there are huge redundancies in some of these supplements; anything I can comfortably cut out of this without losing the benefits would be greatly appreciated by my wallet. 

And as a note, I am trying to focus on aromatase while continuing to produce some T from workouts and supplements in hopes of keeping my junior member alive as well as getting my body to naturally produce E while also maintaining liver health.

[jannet.duff]

I had a quick read in passing ..
You have way too much stuff in your intake. When you take too much, it can not only be expensive, but also inefficient, as one herb plays off against another ..

You need to do the KISS method ( keep it simple )

For success vs money..

PM & WP ( in extract form )

Thats about it.

If you get so far and stop, what ever actual breast tissue you gain, its yours for life. The fat tissue around the breasts will go, the rest will stay. Nipples, arura ect.

Some loss of function downstairs is likely to happen, if you like going shirtless at the beach or the pool, figure in that at some point that option is gone.

[WolfandLace]

I had a quick read in passing ..
You have way too much stuff in your intake. When you take too much, it can not only be expensive, but also inefficient, as one herb plays off against another ..

You need to do the KISS method ( keep it simple )

For success vs money..

PM & WP ( in extract form )

Thats about it.

If you get so far and stop, what ever actual breast tissue you gain, its yours for life. The fat tissue around the breasts will go, the rest will stay. Nipples, arura ect.

Some loss of function downstairs is likely to happen, if you like going shirtless at the beach or the pool, figure in that at some point that option is gone.

Thanks for the quick response and good advice. I'll take it into account as I had a list of these supplements waiting on the chopping block anyway.

I'll adjust my notes accordingly although since I already have the BO from a previous venture, would it be bad to use it as I had described above? I have enough for 3 cycles still, same with PM.

As for too much intake though, I think I just read too much of Lotus' posts in her research thread, whoops. Glad to have your sensible opinion guiding me before I make the leap.

[elainecd]

Start with two caps a day , one morning and one before bed for first two weeks, Then add another so you do new every eight hours.
I did that for a month........then went to two morning and two before bed and white peony extract sublingual twice a day as well.


I've been terrible this calendar year with being consistent and still have a nice handfull of boob on each side.
But no longer.....I have ainterol PM be here tomorrow and have never stopped the peony extract.

Besides it has given me a great foundation of fat layers for the saline infusions I love to do when I have time.

[WolfandLace]

Awesome, it definitely seems the build up method is the way to go from what I've read elsewhere in this forum.

I had tried it initially with good results, so much so that I needed to stop after a month, maybe 5 weeks.

I had some of these other supplements listed (like milk thistle and skullcap) because I had been reading that it's helpful to maintain liver health by keeping it clean so it can continue to handle the high doses of PM. If anyone's can comment on how necessary that may be, I would be interested to know if it helped or hindered progress. I am still relatively young and haven't pushed my liver too hard beyond a handful of nights of hard drinking back in the day if that helps any.

Thank you kindly to those who have offered their assistance this far, much appreciated!

[Nightshade]

I had some of these other supplements listed (like milk thistle and skullcap) because I had been reading that it's helpful to maintain liver health by keeping it clean so it can continue to handle the high doses of PM. If anyone's can comment on how necessary that may be, I would be interested to know if it helped or hindered progress. I am still relatively young and haven't pushed my liver too hard beyond a handful of nights of hard drinking back in the day if that helps any.

Due to chronic health issues, I've been taking milk thistle for several years, but I'm concerned about it possibly having a negative effect for NBE. According to this article its properties as a "phytoestrogen" could make it harder to absorb estrogen

Because there estrogenic effects are so weak, they actually exert more anti-estrogenic effects on breast tissue by occupying estrogen receptors thereby blocking the effects of stronger estrogenic agents including estradiol and pesticides.

I would like to hear from others on this, but I'm considering taking Dandelion Root instead for liver based on one of Lotus' old posts (it's a few years old so I'm not sure if there's updated info on this)

Dandelion root - Good for detoxing the liver, and upregulates estrogen receptors so your body uses the estrogen you are putting in.