[prostatenipple]

Hi,

Not sure if this was asked before (we need a wiki or something like that?).

In terms of hormones, which option here (or add others if I missed any) matters the most, if one is taking only PM for breast growth and nipple sensitivity for orgasm?

1) Total Testosterone needs to be the lowest possible (regardless of other hormones)
2) Estradiol to be the highest (regardless of other hormones)
3) DHT to be the lowest (regardless of other hormones)
4) Total Testosterone to be lower than reference male range and also estradiol to be higher than reference male range
5) Estradiol to be elevated and also DHT to be kept down (i.e. total testosterone not important)


I suppose I'm asking, can both E2 and T be elevated, DHT suppressed, aromatasation to the max and have this make breast tissue and increase in nipple sensitivity?

[Stevenator_]

Re: we need a wiki ....
____________________

Check the Project-X thread.

[HelloDiDi]

It would be so useful to have a wiki for all this stuff... Because there is a lot.

About which hormones are the most important, people always forget prolactin like its some weird beast to be afraid of or something insignificant. Kinda goes for progesterone too to an extent. Both are essential for breast development. And then there's human growth hormone and all that its a precursor of. After these the boob sorcery goes into growth factors and hormonal pathways and what not.

Someone should dig in and start compiling all this into a easy to read coherent form.

[prostatenipple]

It would be so useful to have a wiki for all this stuff... Because there is a lot.

About which hormones are the most important, people always forget prolactin like its some weird beast to be afraid of or something insignificant. Kinda goes for progesterone too to an extent. Both are essential for breast development. And then there's human growth hormone and all that its a precursor of. After these the boob sorcery goes into growth factors and hormonal pathways and what not.

Someone should dig in and start compiling all this into a easy to read coherent form.

I try to reduce prolactin with p-5-p to reduce refractory period (not sure if working) but maybe I shouldnt then?
I've tried some progesterone cream but I have some notes from this site that I collated (it's hard to do that as there's so many different threads and posts over the years), that say progesterone should only be used after you have budded and had growth, and that if used before that stage, it might impede growth and budding.

HGH is something I don't know anything about.

I've considered writing up notes in some sort of note system like Notion / Roam or Logseq however it would be harder to host or share here.

I have some saved pages from circa 2015 from the "Girly Fetishism & Feminisation" image board on a site that no longer exists, people writing about PM and their progress with herbs - should this be written up on this forum some where?

[prostatenipple]

And to tie up my first post with my last post, one of those comments on the Girly thread said:

IMHO it is much more important to inhibit 5alpha reductase in order to limit the formation of DHT.
DHT is produced from testosterone. Estrogen is also produced from testosterone. If you leave free T alone and inhibit DHT formation, your body should convert more free T into E via aromatase.
If you only inhibit free T, DHT will still get produced and your natural estrogen levels will likely go down, because the body wants to maintain a particular ratio of E to T. Which is why it goes up when free T goes up. There are lots of reports of men using testosterone supplements only to acquire gyno from it.

And that's why Im askin about the hormones.

This raises further questions: if a person takes PM, does it mimic estrogen, or does it signal the body to do more conversion of T to E?
If one has hypogonadism (low T), does taking PM end up all that's required? Or does hypogonadism mean PM alone wont be enough if there's no T to convert to E?

[Stevenator_]

HGH is vitally important for breast growth. You can boost it a few ways.

Number one is puberty, and since we're well past the next best thing is High Intensity Interval Training.

After that, intermittent fasting will also boost GH. Combine the two and you e got a powerhouse formula for our overall health and breast growth.

The older we get, the less GH we produce, so you can see how this is doubly important. .

There are a few supplements that can boost GH, Citicoline being one and GABA being another.

The others escape me right now.

[HelloDiDi]

There's two schools of thought about progesterone. One is to take it only when in late (?) Tanner stage three and not earlier. Other is to start it right away. I started at was it seven months on HRT? Quite early, but I was obviously in T3 by then. Others wait for year or two but I don't think its necessary and it can be started right away. I have never seen evidence to the contrary, that early start would be detrimental in any way.

The fear of prolactin I do not understand. It is true that high (VERY high!) prolactin will inhibit both E and PG, but it being somehow again detrimental is a myth. Its essential piece of the breast puzzle obviously. How and when to boost it, is it needed, who benefits and so on is where the weirdness starts where I can't give any definiteve answers. All that I know for sure, is that I have hugely benefitted from boosting prolactin and I have a natural sensitivity to it.

This ties in with dealing with HGH. GABA is fantastic for growth hormone boost and it also boosts prolactin by a big margin. For me its likely the single most effective (and cheap!) supplement for both. GABA before sleep gives a big growth hormone surge during nighttime, exactly what we want to do, especially after 30 years of age, even more so as we get older. Before around 50-60 years, elevating growth hormone close to young adult or even teenager levels is not very difficult, as we get older same benefit requires more and more workout and or supplementation to make happen. It is absolutely essential, no growing happens without growth hormone, its also a precursor to a whole lot of stuff that we need for any growth and healing to happen. I think some supplementation of this is very good for health in general. Abuse obviously is not as that can cause massive problems, but we're not injecting it, just exercising and taking food supplements to support our natural balance. Another good one for growth hormone is L-tyrosine. There are bunch of amino acids that can aid with this, one such experiment I have in planning and I'm yet to get into it.

The thing about prolactin once more, is that it does a lot. It aids areola + nipple development, ducts and what ever else, it makes lactation happen and it can also help growing fat cells to breasts, guess what all very busty women have? Very high fat percetage in breasts. Partially its genetic, the potential for carrying fat in boobs, the rest is about what we do about it, how to help it. Elevated prolactin in absence of progesterone when its not making milk... Makes fat = big boobs. Obviously its not smart to go totally crazy with prolactin as that makes lactation happen and it can inhibit other hormones we want to keep high enough. I'm just scratching the surface here, pulling stuff out of memory and I'm not great with it. There's a whole lot about this to be found online with bit of searching, I just tend to think that importance of prolactin as a puzzle piece for breast growth is often overlooked and forgotten and people even are scared of it somehow.

Also, elevated prolactin levels shouldn't be something to be scared of. I have it quite high naturally, but much much lower than what a prolactinoma (Brain tumor which makes prolactin levels soar.) would do. From multiple lab results and my diary, I have concluded that several things easily elevate my levels and its been very beneficial for breast growth. But I'm just me and these things work differently to everyone. The thing is to not overlook these things.

[Stevenator_]

This is a very fine line we walk along to find our own success. There's definitely no 'One Size Fits All'.

Speaking of progesterone, I've noticed here that my elevated dose has raised my DHT, and my hair is starting to shed. So, I'm increasing Reishi intake and possibly adding Finasteride soon. What a pain in the ass.

[HelloDiDi]

BTw, this is very peculiar thing, me and Melissa talked about the PG to DHT issue and she had noted that for some reason it appears to be very US/Canada centered issue. She said that she had never heard of anyone from Europe, Asia and so on having that problem and I had to agree... I don't know anyone from here either who has it. We tried to figure out why and couldn't come to any conclusion as it made no sense.

I remember well how I was almost scared to try progesterone after reading all the stuff about it upping DHT. Anyway, so far I've had zero issues with progesterone in any form, on any dose. So yea, absolutely no size fits all with HRT and NBE, its some times more like art than exact science. Lot of trial an error to find what works.

[prostatenipple]

There's too much info here, I started making my own notes wiki-style in Obsidian.

Going back to my initial post on this thread, would people agree that #5 is the most important on the list?
Or is it something else? or more complicated than that?