15-07-2011, 10:30 AM
Program comments
August 5 2007 at 4:53 PM Lost Sheep (Login wishfullthinking)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am new to this but have been reading the forum for a time and checking numerous resources in preparation for this. I would like your coments on my plan as well as suggestions and what I might expect over the first month.
Morning Progesterone cream on inner thigh
10 massage with soy oil and fenugeek
Morning, Afternoon and Evening
2x Capsules 540mg Saw Palmetto
1x Capsule 610mg Fenugeek
1x Capsule 430mg Red Clover
2x Capsules Gaba 750 at night only
Afternoon 1 soy protien shake for added protien
I Am male 55 in good health 175lbs on a vegitarian diet. I am under a Drs suppervission for BP. It was high but the loss of 40 lbs curred all that but we still moniter that and liver function ever 6 months to keep me honest. I do love pasta and wine and the monitoring keeps the weight under control which solves the other problems. I currently have well defined man boobs that I have shape with a bra train regime.
I am trying to start at what I think is a slow rate first too reduce the T level then slowly ramp up the Feneggek and Red clover at a rate that promotes growth with out causing it to stall out. I would love your comments and insights on my plan. I want to do this for 1 to 3 months depending on your coments, clense for a month then repeat. I want to try ballancing growth while retaining most of my male function without resorting to Blue pills. My spouse is supportive, she loves the man boobs and nipples and would like a little more but still wants her cake too. So your help and guidance will be greatly appreciated.
Author Reply
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Hello there! August 5 2007, 7:06 PM
I like your program. It seems well thought over too, and I agree with you about slowly increasing the dose of fenugreek and red clover. It's also good that you set aside time for a cleansing break in between. Fenugreek may lower your blood sugar levels, so in case you start to feel tired during the day, that's the culprit. I got that side effect real bad when I was using it.
Good luck and keep us updated!
Fennel
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(no login) Just a comment.... August 7 2007, 6:51 PM
Your right in starting slow....for at least a couple weeks..
however Im going to say that with these low amounts of herbals,you probably arent going to get very much real breast tissue growth,more likely fat tissue accumulation.
You have to disable the TEST.fairly well,before the phytoestrogenics can start building up and working.
I understand fully, you want to keep libido up.
You may have to certainly do the program in a way that you have months of strong PhyEst action for development THEN rest off awhile and build your T back up.You may gain breast growth and then lose some again as you go back and forth.
I was discussing Red Clover with someone else into herbalism/shamanism(hes of Native American descent) and his girlfriend is into the NBE also.
From what he was trying to tell me(he didnt have the appropriate word),I concluded that RC has *adaptogen* properties,it changes its actions according to whichever gender system it is within.
It will stimulate the ruling gonads of a body.
Ive read some things that now make me shy away from too much RC;I have to do some more checking maybe someone else will find something more also.
Adaptogen properties,: Ginseng,Gotu Kola,Muira Puama,Pueraria M.(sp?),Damiana,Yohimbe,Dong Quai,Ashwagandha
For now Im taking:
4-5x620mg fenugreek(groundseed); every 8-9 hrs.
3-4x320mg saw palmetto(berry oil extract)W/100mg pygeum;*same
2-3x450mg licorice(groung root)caps.;*same/on varying schedule
2x1000mg milk thistle(concentrated extract);*same
1x1350mg soy lecithin caps.;*same
1x1000mg ev.primrose oil caps.;*same
2-3x659mg alfalfa tabs.;*same
2x400mg turmeric root caps.;every other day/every 8 hrs
1x100 mcg selenium ;every other day
1 complete high potency multi vitamin(has boron for estrogen assimulation);In A.M.
1x2000mg Vit.C slow release tabs.; 2x daily
1x800 mcg folic acid;in P.M.
2x400 I.U. natural Vit.E (d-alpha tocopherol);every other day
1-2xdaily weight gain drink mix(generic)
1x day whey isolate drink mix(various makers)
Various teas no certain pattern:
Spearmint strong infusion;everyday
Mixture of fennel (fresh ground seed),red clover,lemon balm(melissa),wild nettle;ncp
Tazo Calm version tea:Includes different PE herbs:chamomile,hibiscus,spearmint,lemongrass,rose petals,blackberry leaves,safflower,peppermint,sarsaparilla,lemon balm,licorice root
>>Ive just boosted some of my amounts after resting a few days and Ive got a lot of new aches all across my chest.
Edit Message Delete Message
Cecilia
(Login Ceciliaptgirl) Sounds good August 10 2007, 2:21 AM
Lost Sheep:
It all looks pretty similar to mine and I have definite growht coming about. I will be very interested in knowing what happens with you. Have you been able to determine what GABA is doing for you? Does it help you sleep? It is supposed to induce sleep, but I had quite the contrary effect. It kept me awake four nights in a row. Twoo weeks later, I tried it again at half the dose and it did it again. Now I am stuck with three bottles of the stuff!
Davilee:
Your program seems so intense. Obviously you have read a lot. But how on earth will you be able to track it all and determine what is doing what?
Cecilia
Sincerely - and with love,
Ceciliaptgirl
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) I keep journals..... August 10 2007, 3:25 AM
>>You should keep a journal from the time you start.
I have a section of changes to my body,at two-three week intervals.detailed descriptions,so I can recall in what ways Ive changed.
I have a section of all my herbals and other health items,and I write how much Im taking and when.And then I can see where I need to change and how much.
Keeping track of combos of things is very important.
I have a section of measurements from the beginning.Write down all the measurements that you feel are important to compare changes.
I admit since starting this, im more dingy...hahaha.. than I was...I just have a real mellow attitude..**most of the time**...(I know,i know,no need for anyone to bring up the recent episode...HA!)
Im making a chart so I can keep track of what I take and when I took it and then I can make changes easier from day to day....because some things I take on alternating days.
Edit Message Delete Message
wishfulthinking
(no login) Thank you August 10 2007, 8:39 PM
Thanks to all that responded. For me my program is just a starting point. My plan is to start slow, try to reduce the T levels slowly while supplementing the E receptors with out sending the body in to auto correction. With some Med back ground I know the body tries to keep all in ballance. Over load in one area and the body tries to correct. As I start I'm try to keep the body from going into the auto correction mode while getting it use to higher levels of E. COMMENTS PLEASE!!! I would like to ramp the E up a little as I progress and the boddy gets use to it. The question is when to do this and how. I planned to up the program at the one month point as a tentitive target date. I intended to add 1 610 Mg cap of Fenugreek morning and evening, but was unsure on the red clover or saw palmetto or would any of you recomend something else.
Edit Message Delete Message
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Program comments August 10 2007, 10:41 PM
Here you go..
http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/r...efault.asp
Get the translog software. You may find it helpful.
Personally, I quit measuring and worrying about my gains. I would measure like everyday and not see any change and that would depress me. So I quit worrying about it and just go with whatever I get out of it.
Now I can SEE changes without having to use a tape measure and wonder "wow, did I gain anything since yesterday?"
I understand that my changes will be measured in time frames of weeks and months, not days or hours.
I'm definitely feminizing beyond any shadow of a doubt. It's becoming more and more obvious.
But I don't worry about measuring myself unless I need to buy clothes.
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) only *considering* Saw? August 11 2007, 11:18 AM
Hey,wishfulthinker.......you dont take Saw?....so,what are taking as anti-androgens?
You should definitely consider Saw. Unless you have a problem with weight gain.
Then you dont want Saw,Fenugreek,or Marshmallow,they are good weight gain herbs in addition too their phytoEst. compounds.
Well,you see what Im taking,its just above here.....Im into Licorice for awhile now,have seen alot of good things as to that,its one of the best anti-androgen herbs.
I eat pumpkin seeds.It is anti-DHT. You can get the essential oil of pumpkin seed.
Im really itchin' to get Hops...I want to see what it does to me,as it has the strongest single P.Est compound of any herb,it has several also.
Im going to do a drastic reduction of my plan,when I take that,because I want to see what it does nearly by itself.I have to choose a complimentary herb or berbs to go with it.
Fengshui over with the gals had very good results using BO with Hops.
She was experimenting and she got pretty quick gains from it.
But something was causing her a litle problem and she cut back.
She said she would restart when she dealt with the problem.
Im about ready to just buy the "big gun" Androcur and really crush my testosterone.But,I need to do it sensibly,its very powerful.
>>Oh yah,Morticia,.ive kept myself from buying girls clothes because my body is changing and I dont want to be the wrong size before I even get to wear them much.
Davilee
(Login Davata) BUMPING for Louise...Davilee's program October 28 2007, 4:30 AM
Yes,heres my program as of that date Aug.7.
I have changed some things,mainly have added Hops and several other herbs here and there. You have seen my new quick list in my Guinea pig thread.
Questing for rounder and curvier.///////Many a quirk have I.
August 5 2007 at 4:53 PM Lost Sheep (Login wishfullthinking)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am new to this but have been reading the forum for a time and checking numerous resources in preparation for this. I would like your coments on my plan as well as suggestions and what I might expect over the first month.
Morning Progesterone cream on inner thigh
10 massage with soy oil and fenugeek
Morning, Afternoon and Evening
2x Capsules 540mg Saw Palmetto
1x Capsule 610mg Fenugeek
1x Capsule 430mg Red Clover
2x Capsules Gaba 750 at night only
Afternoon 1 soy protien shake for added protien
I Am male 55 in good health 175lbs on a vegitarian diet. I am under a Drs suppervission for BP. It was high but the loss of 40 lbs curred all that but we still moniter that and liver function ever 6 months to keep me honest. I do love pasta and wine and the monitoring keeps the weight under control which solves the other problems. I currently have well defined man boobs that I have shape with a bra train regime.
I am trying to start at what I think is a slow rate first too reduce the T level then slowly ramp up the Feneggek and Red clover at a rate that promotes growth with out causing it to stall out. I would love your comments and insights on my plan. I want to do this for 1 to 3 months depending on your coments, clense for a month then repeat. I want to try ballancing growth while retaining most of my male function without resorting to Blue pills. My spouse is supportive, she loves the man boobs and nipples and would like a little more but still wants her cake too. So your help and guidance will be greatly appreciated.
Author Reply
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Hello there! August 5 2007, 7:06 PM
I like your program. It seems well thought over too, and I agree with you about slowly increasing the dose of fenugreek and red clover. It's also good that you set aside time for a cleansing break in between. Fenugreek may lower your blood sugar levels, so in case you start to feel tired during the day, that's the culprit. I got that side effect real bad when I was using it.
Good luck and keep us updated!
Fennel
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(no login) Just a comment.... August 7 2007, 6:51 PM
Your right in starting slow....for at least a couple weeks..
however Im going to say that with these low amounts of herbals,you probably arent going to get very much real breast tissue growth,more likely fat tissue accumulation.
You have to disable the TEST.fairly well,before the phytoestrogenics can start building up and working.
I understand fully, you want to keep libido up.
You may have to certainly do the program in a way that you have months of strong PhyEst action for development THEN rest off awhile and build your T back up.You may gain breast growth and then lose some again as you go back and forth.
I was discussing Red Clover with someone else into herbalism/shamanism(hes of Native American descent) and his girlfriend is into the NBE also.
From what he was trying to tell me(he didnt have the appropriate word),I concluded that RC has *adaptogen* properties,it changes its actions according to whichever gender system it is within.
It will stimulate the ruling gonads of a body.
Ive read some things that now make me shy away from too much RC;I have to do some more checking maybe someone else will find something more also.
Adaptogen properties,: Ginseng,Gotu Kola,Muira Puama,Pueraria M.(sp?),Damiana,Yohimbe,Dong Quai,Ashwagandha
For now Im taking:
4-5x620mg fenugreek(groundseed); every 8-9 hrs.
3-4x320mg saw palmetto(berry oil extract)W/100mg pygeum;*same
2-3x450mg licorice(groung root)caps.;*same/on varying schedule
2x1000mg milk thistle(concentrated extract);*same
1x1350mg soy lecithin caps.;*same
1x1000mg ev.primrose oil caps.;*same
2-3x659mg alfalfa tabs.;*same
2x400mg turmeric root caps.;every other day/every 8 hrs
1x100 mcg selenium ;every other day
1 complete high potency multi vitamin(has boron for estrogen assimulation);In A.M.
1x2000mg Vit.C slow release tabs.; 2x daily
1x800 mcg folic acid;in P.M.
2x400 I.U. natural Vit.E (d-alpha tocopherol);every other day
1-2xdaily weight gain drink mix(generic)
1x day whey isolate drink mix(various makers)
Various teas no certain pattern:
Spearmint strong infusion;everyday
Mixture of fennel (fresh ground seed),red clover,lemon balm(melissa),wild nettle;ncp
Tazo Calm version tea:Includes different PE herbs:chamomile,hibiscus,spearmint,lemongrass,rose petals,blackberry leaves,safflower,peppermint,sarsaparilla,lemon balm,licorice root
>>Ive just boosted some of my amounts after resting a few days and Ive got a lot of new aches all across my chest.
Edit Message Delete Message
Cecilia
(Login Ceciliaptgirl) Sounds good August 10 2007, 2:21 AM
Lost Sheep:
It all looks pretty similar to mine and I have definite growht coming about. I will be very interested in knowing what happens with you. Have you been able to determine what GABA is doing for you? Does it help you sleep? It is supposed to induce sleep, but I had quite the contrary effect. It kept me awake four nights in a row. Twoo weeks later, I tried it again at half the dose and it did it again. Now I am stuck with three bottles of the stuff!
Davilee:
Your program seems so intense. Obviously you have read a lot. But how on earth will you be able to track it all and determine what is doing what?
Cecilia
Sincerely - and with love,
Ceciliaptgirl
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) I keep journals..... August 10 2007, 3:25 AM
>>You should keep a journal from the time you start.
I have a section of changes to my body,at two-three week intervals.detailed descriptions,so I can recall in what ways Ive changed.
I have a section of all my herbals and other health items,and I write how much Im taking and when.And then I can see where I need to change and how much.
Keeping track of combos of things is very important.
I have a section of measurements from the beginning.Write down all the measurements that you feel are important to compare changes.
I admit since starting this, im more dingy...hahaha.. than I was...I just have a real mellow attitude..**most of the time**...(I know,i know,no need for anyone to bring up the recent episode...HA!)
Im making a chart so I can keep track of what I take and when I took it and then I can make changes easier from day to day....because some things I take on alternating days.
Edit Message Delete Message
wishfulthinking
(no login) Thank you August 10 2007, 8:39 PM
Thanks to all that responded. For me my program is just a starting point. My plan is to start slow, try to reduce the T levels slowly while supplementing the E receptors with out sending the body in to auto correction. With some Med back ground I know the body tries to keep all in ballance. Over load in one area and the body tries to correct. As I start I'm try to keep the body from going into the auto correction mode while getting it use to higher levels of E. COMMENTS PLEASE!!! I would like to ramp the E up a little as I progress and the boddy gets use to it. The question is when to do this and how. I planned to up the program at the one month point as a tentitive target date. I intended to add 1 610 Mg cap of Fenugreek morning and evening, but was unsure on the red clover or saw palmetto or would any of you recomend something else.
Edit Message Delete Message
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Program comments August 10 2007, 10:41 PM
Here you go..
http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/r...efault.asp
Get the translog software. You may find it helpful.
Personally, I quit measuring and worrying about my gains. I would measure like everyday and not see any change and that would depress me. So I quit worrying about it and just go with whatever I get out of it.
Now I can SEE changes without having to use a tape measure and wonder "wow, did I gain anything since yesterday?"
I understand that my changes will be measured in time frames of weeks and months, not days or hours.
I'm definitely feminizing beyond any shadow of a doubt. It's becoming more and more obvious.
But I don't worry about measuring myself unless I need to buy clothes.
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) only *considering* Saw? August 11 2007, 11:18 AM
Hey,wishfulthinker.......you dont take Saw?....so,what are taking as anti-androgens?
You should definitely consider Saw. Unless you have a problem with weight gain.
Then you dont want Saw,Fenugreek,or Marshmallow,they are good weight gain herbs in addition too their phytoEst. compounds.
Well,you see what Im taking,its just above here.....Im into Licorice for awhile now,have seen alot of good things as to that,its one of the best anti-androgen herbs.
I eat pumpkin seeds.It is anti-DHT. You can get the essential oil of pumpkin seed.
Im really itchin' to get Hops...I want to see what it does to me,as it has the strongest single P.Est compound of any herb,it has several also.
Im going to do a drastic reduction of my plan,when I take that,because I want to see what it does nearly by itself.I have to choose a complimentary herb or berbs to go with it.
Fengshui over with the gals had very good results using BO with Hops.
She was experimenting and she got pretty quick gains from it.
But something was causing her a litle problem and she cut back.
She said she would restart when she dealt with the problem.
Im about ready to just buy the "big gun" Androcur and really crush my testosterone.But,I need to do it sensibly,its very powerful.
>>Oh yah,Morticia,.ive kept myself from buying girls clothes because my body is changing and I dont want to be the wrong size before I even get to wear them much.
Davilee
(Login Davata) BUMPING for Louise...Davilee's program October 28 2007, 4:30 AM
Yes,heres my program as of that date Aug.7.
I have changed some things,mainly have added Hops and several other herbs here and there. You have seen my new quick list in my Guinea pig thread.
Questing for rounder and curvier.///////Many a quirk have I.