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I've been told not to mix BO (archive thread)

#1

Phyto VS. BO
September 3 2008 at 3:54 AM Chasin (no login)

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I have both and have been told to not mix. I kn BO is frm ovary of cows which has estrogen and the Herbs are Phytos. They both seem to be working. Now the question is which one would be better? I have not tried the BO by itself yet. Or do I take others with the BO? Like SP? Im on a break til the end of the week and want to know which way to go when I start back. I have been taking alot of Herbs and have good results.Looking at the Noogleberry also to further the results. Things are going good,tks for all the help.



Author Reply
tgdonna
(no login) RE: Phyto VS. BO September 3 2008, 8:17 PM


I've tried both separately and I've tried them together. I have personally achieved the best results with them combined and am beginning to think the "not mixing them" started as a rumor or an extrapolation from some comment and has been perpetuated as gospel without any scientific proof.

The only origin I can find for "not mixing them" is the bountiful breast site that simply says one typically does not use both at the same time. It never says they can't be combined or what the results are when you do combine them.

On several lists/blogs I've read where people quote that site (or link it) and theorize that phyto-estrogens are weaker and block the stronger estrogens of BO and essentially wastes one of the two products. But there is no scientific data to back any of this up.

I have personally tried cycling one and then the other and then both. And then repeated the tests a couple of times but in a different order to see if the results repeated. They did. I got results from both, but my best results were a combination.

If there is any truth to weaker vs. stronger estrogens, the next question is what is meant by weaker vs. stronger. Do they bind weaker? If so, wouldn't the stronger ones bind first and the weaker then take up the remaining "slots"? Or do they bind the same and just "function" weaker?

No one seems to have any meaningful scientific data to back it up with. And my conclusions have been to try all combinations and see what works best for YOU. Each person will respond differently to different things. Some may have best results on Phytos, others on BO, and still others on some combination.

The only common thread in the many different regimens out there is that you have to experiment to find what is optimal for you personally.

As for SP, that isn't an estrogen, it's more of an anti-androgen and can (and probably should) be used with both regimens.



Duh
(no login) Re: Phyto VS. BO September 3 2008, 9:21 PM


A weak phytoestrogen has a weaker estrogenic effect than a strong phytoestrogen. And there is no scientific data on NBE whatsoever. You are your own experiment.


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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: Phyto VS. BO September 3 2008, 10:13 PM


Hello there! :-)

Just want to add my two cents.

You only have a limited number of estrogen receptors. This has been proven scientifically. When you ingest/inject an estrogen or phytoestrogen, the receptors will act as docking sites for the estrogenic molecules.

Now...

In a male or TS Male to Female body, there is not a lot of natural estrogen so the system would be quite receptive or sensitive to added estrogen contrary to a biological woman who is already producing a high amount of estrogen in her system.

Let's say you have 100 000 receptor sites for estrogen. Would you rather leave those spaces for strong estrogenics alone, or would you prefer it if weak estrogenics and strong estrogenics compete for the spaces?

If you were taking galactogogues together with the bovine ovary, it might have had an added effect to your NBE because of the way galactogogues work (not by causing permanent tissue growth but rather enlarging milk glands and ducts temporarily - yes we ALL have them funny enough)but generally, it doesn't make sense to give the real estrogen in the ovary product a weaker contestant to fight with for receptor space, since the number of receptors are limited. It might work as long as the dosage is low...

As for science and research, no one has looked into what happens if you mix phytoestrogens and real estrogen for NBE, but there has been research about what happens if a woman with high natural estrogen levels take phytoestrogens. The effect was that the total estrogenic effect on her body was reduced. At the same time, women with a very low natural estrogen production will get a higher total estrogenic activity. There is a lot of scientific data on this.

When doctors prescribe estrogen to transgendered women for injections, they are told to stay off phytoestrogens and similar stuff so that they will get the best possible effect out of their hormone treatment. I am sure the doctors base their knowledge on scientific data.

And what does that tell us?

If your estrogen is naturally low, phytoestrogens will increase the estrogenic processes in your body. But if you already produce a lot of estrogen naturally OR INGEST/INJECT A LOT OF REAL ESTROGEN, phytoestrogens will lower the total estrogenic effect on your body.

And maybe constant changes can **** up your body in some way? There is no scientific data on the risks. No one can say for sure if this is good or bad. What is good for your results might not necessarily be good for your health, but we are all in the dark here when it comes to safety and long term health effects. What you SHOULD worry about though, is overdoing the stuff because of the risk of bloodclots.



Chasin
(no login) Phyto & BO September 4 2008, 12:35 AM


Ok thanks,now im kinda sure and confused. Make up my own mind. Im doing good with the mix of both. Seeing I do take alot of different Herbs that are phyto, I try not to overdue the BO,but when I did increase the BO with the phytos I did get the tingle or sting and some soreness in my breast. Like all of you said, I just have to mix and match things to find the best results. For me I think Im getting better with the mix. But at the same time I believe I will reduce the phytos alittle when I start back this weekend. Really thanks for all the input and remarks.Case ur wondering,Im a good "A" cup getting close to "B" in only 3 months. Yea! I know...Tks



Andrea
(no login) Phyto & BO September 6 2008, 11:19 AM

For me Phyto worked better because I'd tried BO before without success. But everyone is different I guess.
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