29-07-2011, 11:27 AM
Help with my BO & PE mixup
July 16 2007 at 12:29 AM Nicole (Login Iminadaze)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all let me say hello to everyone here, I am new to this forum and I read the topics everyone wrote all day, and I learned so much today off this forum than I have learned in my 2 and a half months on estrogen searching the net for some answers. anyway it seems I have gone about this all wrong I bought the 9 month supply of bountiful breast which was expensive and from reading thier testimonials started taking 2 capsules 3x daily with protein shake and EPO 2x daily.
because I kept reading on the net I found natureday and my evanesce, I ordered the cream and liquid from natueday and anti-androgen from my evanesce. the BB arrived one week before my other products so I started them first. once the other products arrived I started them also. to top it off I found GNC's phytoestrogen which contains borage oil, black cohosh root extract, and soy isoflavone. I started the Bountiful breast capsules Apr 28 2007, and the rest the next week. Now I read here on this forum that I should NOT be mixing bovine ovaries and phyto-estrogens (at least not the ingestiable ones). I'm really confused what to do at this point on what to continue taking and what to stop or if I should take a break and re-start one program. don't get me wrong I am a 5'8" male 130lbs which is skinny and I had no chest I mean zero, and now I measure 32" under-bust and 34 and a half over-bust (I almost fill a 32A cup bra) so I am happy, but maybe my results could be better if I did not mix them now I need a little help with my next step, and before I forget I was thinking of adding saw palmetto to the next step whichever way I go. anyway thanks for
listening
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Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 4:58 AM
Well, the question is, how far do you really want to take it?
You're not just going to get tits out of this, you'll feminize all over at the same time.
If you're TS, then you won't have any problems. But if you're a guy that just wants to have female tits, well, you get some freebies with the package. Grow tits, become feminine. Period.
If you've achieved A cup without any other significant body changes, you are probably right at the precipice.
You are probably close to crossing over the point of no return.
If you really want to continue down this path then by all means, do so.
Personally, if I were you, I would finish taking the expensive stuff you've already plunked down the cash for.
Get your money's worth out of it. After that you can take a break to flush your system for a bit then start on a new and much less expensive program. Herbs are effective. I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, from first hand experience, they work. And BO works too. I can tell you that, also from first hand experience.
Some other TS women have looked down their noses at me for using herbs and BO rather than the synthetic man made estrogens that you have to get from a doctor for $$$$ and that put you at serious risk for all sorts of dangerous medical problems like stroke, heart attack and even death. This was works too but it's SAFER.. Much safer..
Anyway. Saw Palmetto is a pretty good anti-androgen, as is spearmint tea. Fennel found another good item that's supposed to be like 3,000 times stronger than SP. Read back a week or so and you'll find it. BTW, Fennel is an awesome chick, she's really up on all this stuff and she's here to help us. What would we do without her?!
You can safely take SP now, with your current regime and along with any other regime.
Eliminating or suppressing testosterone is a very important factor in this. Test. is working against you and stopping it is very difficult.
Fennel has presented a good argument and evidence to show that taking PE's and BO together are futile.
But, on the other hand, if you look at some of the commercial feminization products, they mix them all in.
Why? I think they are selling an ingredient list to those that are uninformed. Yes, all those items can contribute to breast growth but does it do any good to take them all at the same time?
Also, some of the quantities (mg) of each ingredient of the commercial products are small. You get enough to see a little happening but not enough to get you there quickly. So they string you along to buy more and more product from them for as long as possible.. They are profit driven.
The DIY option is much less expensive and you can adjust the quantities of each item to suit your individual needs and desires.
There is a LOT of good info in this forum..
_______________________________________
http://transhouston.com/members/blog/morticia
_______________________________________
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel
(no login) Hello and welcome to us! July 16 2007, 7:24 AM
I would suggest you taking the bountiful breast together with saw palmetto until you run out of bountiful breast, then take a break and let your liver recover. After that, do the phytoestrogens.
Mixing the two would probably mean that you're weakening the effect of the bountiful breast. Also, too many estrogenic compounds bombarding a small number of estrogen receptors will result in a rapid growth initially and then you'd just stall because of the overload. There is also the risk of deep vein trombosis when you overload the system with estrogenic products.
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel
(no login) I forgot to say that July 16 2007, 7:27 AM
You have been overdosing for some time now and might already have made yourself stall, so my advice is to take a two week break immediately from EVERYTHING and then start fresh with the bountiful breast and saw palmetto.
Edit Message Delete Message
Nicole
(Login Iminadaze) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 5:22 PM
thanks very much for your responses, trying to acomplish this change on my own is difficult and some help is just what I needed. all of you are wonderful by sharing your experiences so misinformed people like me can learn. I do think I may have stalled I noticed most of the changes in breast area during the first month and a half. now it seems that there is not much going in terms of size. my right (bud) behind the nipple is noticeably larger than the left but both are equally sore to the touch. I'm willing to take a break as it seems well advised, when I do, should I expect some shrinking or will growth continue? when I restart I will be using the BO because I still have a months supply if I take 4 daily. in that time I will try to use this forum to get the best possible herbals for me without necessarily using commercial sites. and I do plan to buy from D&E on my next BO order. How long should I continue With BO before trying PE's and while I'm on BO can I still use the natureday cream? because I still have plenty left.....sorry for all the questions but I am so comitted and I really want to get it right. If anyone has any additional advice to my plan please let me know, but for now I'm going to start my break and start doing some hormone homework.....again thanks for all your help.
Edit Message Delete Message
Blu-Jay
(Login Blu-Jay) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 7:18 PM
I believe you mentioned that you've been doing this for 21/2 months? A week or two break should be fine without shrinking. All you want to do is give your liver and estrogen recepters a chance to clearout. Try and drink plenty of water during your break,you can even add a squeeze of lemon to your water which is good for cleansing. Then start again and try not to bombard yourself with to many different types of estrogen. That's also a good way of figuring out what's working for you and what isn't. If the ovary is working,Stick with it. If it isn't working try something else! The important thing is, you must keep taking an anti-androgen. Testosterone MUST stay under control.
Good Luck! And Welcome :-)
Blu-Jay
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Hey good topic/Hi Nicole! July 20 2007, 10:20 AM
Hey Nicole we should talk sometime,you sound like you are where I am.
Im 5'10" and 133-137 lbs(I flucuate),I started out with no chest also.Not hardly even any pectoral muscles.
I was fortunate to have good sized areolas,but my nipples needed work(thats another topic)
Ive been very slender my adult life(in 30's),except for my hips,I have wide pelvic girdle with my body options package.
Yes,I was thinking of starting the B.O.and was waiting to see what my body was going to do with the herbals Im taking.
Im having good development all over with just herbals.I havent added anything like Tri-Est gel or Prog.cream yet.I have been at this for only a month or so and its about time to increase my progesterone.
As i said in another thread,im not typical body gender profile,so,I probably am more receptive to phytoestrogenics than some people are.I have some screwed up hormone levels as normal thing;I have low testosterone and varying levels of estrogen/progesterone.
Sounds like Im doing better than a lot of the biogals over on the main discussion forum.
The great things that Ive found for my slenderness is the S.Palmetto and Fenugreek.At least thats what others have said causes weight gain.Ive read on a site that SP and Marshmallow are good for weight gain.
I eat a lot of oatmeal,fresh ground flaxseed and fruit.Mainly because they get me weight gain but they are also very good for your heart.
All these have lignans,which are good for estrogen balancing and distribution.
We should compare notes on herbals sometime.C-ya round
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Darn it,I forgot smthing... July 20 2007, 10:36 AM
Oh,I take milk thistle for liver cleaning.
It also happens to be a lobule stimulator.Yeah!
This is good stuff,the best thing for liver health and cleaning out toxins.
I read that your liver will process hormones much better after toning it up for a bit with this.
It promotes circulation particularly through pelvic region and through fibrous tissues like the breasts have.
WOW,huh?
A health article said that for lobule stimulation it works best when teamed with Goatsbeard,Fennel and Hops.
Did you know that hops has the strongest known isoflavone of any plant?
It is 8-prenylnaringenin; 1/20th the strength of,I think estriol.I cant find my note on it.
Edit Message Delete Message
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 20 2007, 10:42 AM
ok, that does it for me, I'm going to go get some milk thistle tomorrow.
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) By all means July 20 2007, 8:39 PM
Its a great thing to add to your program as it is quite cheap,and you can get it in varying strengths.The stan.extracts are usually 1000mg,4:1,80%-90% silymarin.
There are so many brands of this.
Milk thistle and blessed thistle have similar qualities.Although,I havent seen blessed recommended strictly for liver cleansing,though it probably has that characteristic also.
July 16 2007 at 12:29 AM Nicole (Login Iminadaze)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all let me say hello to everyone here, I am new to this forum and I read the topics everyone wrote all day, and I learned so much today off this forum than I have learned in my 2 and a half months on estrogen searching the net for some answers. anyway it seems I have gone about this all wrong I bought the 9 month supply of bountiful breast which was expensive and from reading thier testimonials started taking 2 capsules 3x daily with protein shake and EPO 2x daily.
because I kept reading on the net I found natureday and my evanesce, I ordered the cream and liquid from natueday and anti-androgen from my evanesce. the BB arrived one week before my other products so I started them first. once the other products arrived I started them also. to top it off I found GNC's phytoestrogen which contains borage oil, black cohosh root extract, and soy isoflavone. I started the Bountiful breast capsules Apr 28 2007, and the rest the next week. Now I read here on this forum that I should NOT be mixing bovine ovaries and phyto-estrogens (at least not the ingestiable ones). I'm really confused what to do at this point on what to continue taking and what to stop or if I should take a break and re-start one program. don't get me wrong I am a 5'8" male 130lbs which is skinny and I had no chest I mean zero, and now I measure 32" under-bust and 34 and a half over-bust (I almost fill a 32A cup bra) so I am happy, but maybe my results could be better if I did not mix them now I need a little help with my next step, and before I forget I was thinking of adding saw palmetto to the next step whichever way I go. anyway thanks for
listening
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Author Reply
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 4:58 AM
Well, the question is, how far do you really want to take it?
You're not just going to get tits out of this, you'll feminize all over at the same time.
If you're TS, then you won't have any problems. But if you're a guy that just wants to have female tits, well, you get some freebies with the package. Grow tits, become feminine. Period.
If you've achieved A cup without any other significant body changes, you are probably right at the precipice.
You are probably close to crossing over the point of no return.
If you really want to continue down this path then by all means, do so.
Personally, if I were you, I would finish taking the expensive stuff you've already plunked down the cash for.
Get your money's worth out of it. After that you can take a break to flush your system for a bit then start on a new and much less expensive program. Herbs are effective. I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, from first hand experience, they work. And BO works too. I can tell you that, also from first hand experience.
Some other TS women have looked down their noses at me for using herbs and BO rather than the synthetic man made estrogens that you have to get from a doctor for $$$$ and that put you at serious risk for all sorts of dangerous medical problems like stroke, heart attack and even death. This was works too but it's SAFER.. Much safer..
Anyway. Saw Palmetto is a pretty good anti-androgen, as is spearmint tea. Fennel found another good item that's supposed to be like 3,000 times stronger than SP. Read back a week or so and you'll find it. BTW, Fennel is an awesome chick, she's really up on all this stuff and she's here to help us. What would we do without her?!
You can safely take SP now, with your current regime and along with any other regime.
Eliminating or suppressing testosterone is a very important factor in this. Test. is working against you and stopping it is very difficult.
Fennel has presented a good argument and evidence to show that taking PE's and BO together are futile.
But, on the other hand, if you look at some of the commercial feminization products, they mix them all in.
Why? I think they are selling an ingredient list to those that are uninformed. Yes, all those items can contribute to breast growth but does it do any good to take them all at the same time?
Also, some of the quantities (mg) of each ingredient of the commercial products are small. You get enough to see a little happening but not enough to get you there quickly. So they string you along to buy more and more product from them for as long as possible.. They are profit driven.
The DIY option is much less expensive and you can adjust the quantities of each item to suit your individual needs and desires.
There is a LOT of good info in this forum..
_______________________________________
http://transhouston.com/members/blog/morticia
_______________________________________
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel
(no login) Hello and welcome to us! July 16 2007, 7:24 AM
I would suggest you taking the bountiful breast together with saw palmetto until you run out of bountiful breast, then take a break and let your liver recover. After that, do the phytoestrogens.
Mixing the two would probably mean that you're weakening the effect of the bountiful breast. Also, too many estrogenic compounds bombarding a small number of estrogen receptors will result in a rapid growth initially and then you'd just stall because of the overload. There is also the risk of deep vein trombosis when you overload the system with estrogenic products.
Edit Message Delete Message
Fennel
(no login) I forgot to say that July 16 2007, 7:27 AM
You have been overdosing for some time now and might already have made yourself stall, so my advice is to take a two week break immediately from EVERYTHING and then start fresh with the bountiful breast and saw palmetto.
Edit Message Delete Message
Nicole
(Login Iminadaze) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 5:22 PM
thanks very much for your responses, trying to acomplish this change on my own is difficult and some help is just what I needed. all of you are wonderful by sharing your experiences so misinformed people like me can learn. I do think I may have stalled I noticed most of the changes in breast area during the first month and a half. now it seems that there is not much going in terms of size. my right (bud) behind the nipple is noticeably larger than the left but both are equally sore to the touch. I'm willing to take a break as it seems well advised, when I do, should I expect some shrinking or will growth continue? when I restart I will be using the BO because I still have a months supply if I take 4 daily. in that time I will try to use this forum to get the best possible herbals for me without necessarily using commercial sites. and I do plan to buy from D&E on my next BO order. How long should I continue With BO before trying PE's and while I'm on BO can I still use the natureday cream? because I still have plenty left.....sorry for all the questions but I am so comitted and I really want to get it right. If anyone has any additional advice to my plan please let me know, but for now I'm going to start my break and start doing some hormone homework.....again thanks for all your help.
Edit Message Delete Message
Blu-Jay
(Login Blu-Jay) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 16 2007, 7:18 PM
I believe you mentioned that you've been doing this for 21/2 months? A week or two break should be fine without shrinking. All you want to do is give your liver and estrogen recepters a chance to clearout. Try and drink plenty of water during your break,you can even add a squeeze of lemon to your water which is good for cleansing. Then start again and try not to bombard yourself with to many different types of estrogen. That's also a good way of figuring out what's working for you and what isn't. If the ovary is working,Stick with it. If it isn't working try something else! The important thing is, you must keep taking an anti-androgen. Testosterone MUST stay under control.
Good Luck! And Welcome :-)
Blu-Jay
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Hey good topic/Hi Nicole! July 20 2007, 10:20 AM
Hey Nicole we should talk sometime,you sound like you are where I am.
Im 5'10" and 133-137 lbs(I flucuate),I started out with no chest also.Not hardly even any pectoral muscles.
I was fortunate to have good sized areolas,but my nipples needed work(thats another topic)
Ive been very slender my adult life(in 30's),except for my hips,I have wide pelvic girdle with my body options package.
Yes,I was thinking of starting the B.O.and was waiting to see what my body was going to do with the herbals Im taking.
Im having good development all over with just herbals.I havent added anything like Tri-Est gel or Prog.cream yet.I have been at this for only a month or so and its about time to increase my progesterone.
As i said in another thread,im not typical body gender profile,so,I probably am more receptive to phytoestrogenics than some people are.I have some screwed up hormone levels as normal thing;I have low testosterone and varying levels of estrogen/progesterone.
Sounds like Im doing better than a lot of the biogals over on the main discussion forum.
The great things that Ive found for my slenderness is the S.Palmetto and Fenugreek.At least thats what others have said causes weight gain.Ive read on a site that SP and Marshmallow are good for weight gain.
I eat a lot of oatmeal,fresh ground flaxseed and fruit.Mainly because they get me weight gain but they are also very good for your heart.
All these have lignans,which are good for estrogen balancing and distribution.
We should compare notes on herbals sometime.C-ya round
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Darn it,I forgot smthing... July 20 2007, 10:36 AM
Oh,I take milk thistle for liver cleaning.
It also happens to be a lobule stimulator.Yeah!
This is good stuff,the best thing for liver health and cleaning out toxins.
I read that your liver will process hormones much better after toning it up for a bit with this.
It promotes circulation particularly through pelvic region and through fibrous tissues like the breasts have.
WOW,huh?
A health article said that for lobule stimulation it works best when teamed with Goatsbeard,Fennel and Hops.
Did you know that hops has the strongest known isoflavone of any plant?
It is 8-prenylnaringenin; 1/20th the strength of,I think estriol.I cant find my note on it.
Edit Message Delete Message
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: Help with my BO & PE mixup July 20 2007, 10:42 AM
ok, that does it for me, I'm going to go get some milk thistle tomorrow.
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) By all means July 20 2007, 8:39 PM
Its a great thing to add to your program as it is quite cheap,and you can get it in varying strengths.The stan.extracts are usually 1000mg,4:1,80%-90% silymarin.
There are so many brands of this.
Milk thistle and blessed thistle have similar qualities.Although,I havent seen blessed recommended strictly for liver cleansing,though it probably has that characteristic also.