[ZOE]

I am sorry I was not a bit more clear Samantha. The heaviness and morning 'ache' is not in my head but in my breasts. I don't get headaches.

Zoe

[Samantha Rogers]

I am sorry I was not a bit more clear Samantha. The heaviness and morning 'ache' is not in my head but in my breasts. I don't get headaches.

Zoe

Ah, my mistake. Tee hee. Yes you already said no headaches, and I misread the last comment about heaviness. A little dingy tonight.
Well, slowed growth is not what we want, but heaviness and some breaks combined with "golf ball sized lumps" all bodes well. As I mentioned, you may just be in a lull. Besides those huge amounts of PM and SP, are you taking anything else at all? I noticed the Fish Oil, which I think is good. Vitamins? Calcium? Drinking grapefruit juice? Anything at all you can think of? I do see now that you take a multi. Check the content for zinc. If it is there (i bet it is) maybe look for an alternative without zinc, which is bad for male NBE, as I recall. Lotus will likely have supportive data on that.
Upon further review, maybe a short break followed by a renewed approach with smaller doses of SP. in fact you might want to just try dropping SP altogether and going PM exclusively for awhile. See what happens. I am really betting it is too much SP. I got good growth the first two years by being constant on PM, with occasional periods of 450 to 900 mgs of SP. You can always start adding stuff back later.

[ZOE]

Thanks Samantha.

Zoe

[ZOE]

Hello all,

I must begin by saying how much I admire the generous support of all on this forum. I must also say that I feel a bit guilty that at this time I can't contribute much to your knowledge base. I hope that will change soon.

Some background:
I have been a "lurking" member for quite some time. As most, I desire my own breasts. The reasons can wait for a more opportune post, but suffice to say, I share much with my "sisters."

By my nature, I am not overly bubbly or social, (how I envy so many of your lighthearted banter). As I get to know you all I hope that will change.

Fashion show? Wow! Such openness and support. I will be with you soon.

I will not begin to list the knowledge gained by individuals for fear of overlooking someone, I will simply say, "Thank you." Happiness and health to all!

So.......

After taking a break, I am adjusting and adding to my program using suggestions from Samantha, Mistress Lotus and others. I have learned so much in the aromatase thread, still trying to figure how Reishi mushrooms may be added for benefit. Also, Peony for aromatase (hard to find).

So here the former program:
5:00am 2X500mg PM 1X450mg SP
10:00am 1X500mg PM 2X450mg SP
2:00pm 2X500mg PM 1X450mg SP
6:00pm 1X500mg PM 1X450mg SP
11:00pm 1X500mg PM 1X450mg SP

This resulted in 3500mg PM and 2700mg of SP. Was also taking Fish Oil and a multi vitamin along with a low carb diet and exercise.

New program:
5:30am 1X500mg PM, 1X450mg SP, 1 cup spearmint tea, massage
7:00am 1X750mg GABA, 1X500mg PABA, 2X1200mg f-oil
11:30am 1X500mg PM, 1X450mg SP
1:00pm 1X750mg GABA, 1 cup spearmint tea
5:30pm 1X500mg PM, 1X450mg SP
7:00pm 1X750mg GABA, 1X500mg PABA, 2X1200mg f-oil, massage
9:00pm 1 cup spearmint tea
10:00pm 1X750mg GABA
10:30pm 2X500mg PM, 1X450mg SP, massage

Diet:
I follow a very low carbohydrate/high protein diet (while being conscious of fats) to maintain consistent blood sugar levels, control high triglycerides and weight.
7:00 Breakfast - 10:00am Snack - 1:00pm Lunch - 4:00pm Snack - 8:00pm Dinner (time varies) - total calories about 2000.

Exercise:
Recommendations for my age are 300 minutes per week of moderate intensity. I ride a bike to and from work 4 days a week 1/2 hour each way and swim on Saturday and Sunday (Florida heated pool) for 45 minutes each day. Total is about 330 minutes per week. During extremely inclement weather, will substitute with a stationary bike.

Comparative program total per 24 hour period
Before:
PM - 3500mg, SP - 2700mg, f-oil - 2400mg, exercise & diet as above.

Present:
PM - 2500mg, SP - 1800mg, GABA - 3000mg (minimum for HGH benefit), PABA - 1000 mg, Spearmint Tea - 3 cups, F-oil - 2400mg, Multivitamin once a day, Massage - 3X a day, Exercise and diet - same.

Understandings:

PM Phytoestrogen not to be combined with others as will compete with receptors.

Saw Palmetto anti androgen inhibits DHT, BUT may also affect estrogen receptor binding.

Spearmint Tea decreases free testosterone.

GABA may increase HGH in sufficient amounts. May aid in growth.

PABA may help regulate estrogen action.

Those are the big ones for me right now. But, a couple questions.

1) Should I consider replacing SP with Reishi? Is there enough evidence that SP may effect estrogen reception?

2) SP AND Spearmint Tea? Seems to make sense for now?

3) Is 3000mg GABA and 1000mg PABA appropriate? High/Low?

4) Aromates, where to get Peony or others. Is Reishi a good substitute?

5) If I find Peony, will Spearmint Tea compromise aromatase?

6) ANY AND ALL THOUGHTS.........APPRECIATED!

Hugs, Kisses, and Long Happy Life to All. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Best wishes,

Zoe

[Lotus]

Those are the big ones for me right now. But, a couple questions.

1) Should I consider replacing SP with Reishi? Is there enough evidence that SP may effect estrogen,

Don't complicate your program, stick to what you have, you can consider other options like these down the road.

The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels.

Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum)
That study found that reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT.

2) SP AND Spearmint Tea? Seems to make sense for now?

Spearmint tea is ok.

3) Is 3000mg GABA and 1000mg PABA appropriate? High/Low?

You're good here!

4) Aromates, where to get Peony or others. Is Reishi a good substitute?

I've added white peony tea from Swansons, but until you find it yes it's ok.

5) If I find Peony, will Spearmint Tea compromise aromatase?

Peony Root - Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase -Spearmint to block T, I'd say its worth trying.

6) ANY AND ALL THOUGHTS.........APPRECIATED!

Hugs, Kisses, and Long Happy Life to All. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Best wishes,

Zoe

Awesome Job on your program!, I think you'll be a valued member!!

[ZOE]

M. Lotus,

You are amazing. Thank you for you response and I will indeed strive to be a "Valued," member,

Best wishes,

Zoe

[ZOE]

Hello everyone,

Have decided to stop saw palmetto and begin licorice root - 2250 mg per day with one day off each week and one week off each month.

Does this sound OK? Read that up to 3g per day is safe.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Zoe

[ZOE]

So, it looks like this:

Estrogenic herb - PM 2500 mg
Pro hormone - Fish oil 2400 mg
Pro-Aromatase - Licorice root 2250 mg
Potentiators - GABA -3000 mg. PABA - 1000mg

Best wishes,

Zoe

[Lotus]

Hello everyone,

Have decided to stop saw palmetto and begin licorice root - 2250 mg per day with one day off each week and one week off each month.

Does this sound OK? Read that up to 3g per day is safe.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Zoe

So, it looks like this:

Estrogenic herb - PM 2500 mg
Pro hormone - Fish oil 2400 mg
Pro-Aromatase - Licorice root 2250 mg
Potentiators - GABA -3000 mg. PABA - 1000mg

Best wishes,

Zoe

Hi ZOE,

Just be careful w/licorice, I've seen it recommend not to use past 7 days, I've taken 1 every other day and at 45O mg. Whatever info we have on LR should be updated to include that precaution. (Just want us to be careful out there).

I have further info if needed, but it comes from UMMC:

Source: Licorice | University of Maryland Medical Center


The rest looks good, don't forget about massage.

[ZOE]

M. Lotus,

Thanks for your reply. I spent much of today researching licorice root and had read the UMMC information as well as many others. I was understanding that less than 3g per day was safe. I also believed that a day off each week and a week off each month would be more than sufficient.
-
I re-read the info from UMMC and am now questioning myself.

It is so hard to get any clearity concerning any herb, it seems.

I will be careful, thanks you for your concen, and will spend the night thinking of a safe way to procede.

Best wishes,

ZOE