Hi Lotus,

I ended up here because I was looking for a place to put some questions to you. First the technical ones.

I'm currently taking as part of my regime and as what goes first into me in the morning a paste made with plain yogurt, the whole of my daily dose of PM powder, a measured teaspoonful of shatavari powder and a measured teaspoonful of Maca powder (I'm currently taking an additional two 500mg maca capsules in the evening but when the capsules run out I'm thinking of adding another half teaspoonful of powder to the morning mix. I find that the maca makes the mix more palatable than it would be otherwise, though I understand that some people don't like the smell and taste. The mixture seems to be working: my breasts are more tender than they've been for a while, and I seem to be getting noticeable (to my wife) butt growth. My question - is there any downside to this sort of mix?

Going back to grapefruit juice (and for that matter cranberry juice), it seems to me that there may be what I'd term a threshold effect here. In moderate quantities they can both be beneficial (moderation in all things may be a cliche but is a good life principle: or better still know just how far to go and then go a very little bit further), and the serious side effects are confined to those who grossly overindulge. For myself, I was at one time consuming vast quantities of grapefruit and other citrus juices first thing in the morning under the mistaken belief that it was good for me while it was actually driving me rapidly towards diabetes. It seems to me that there are a number of herbs,foods and pharmaceuticals that while they are beneficial inn moderate dosages have a possibly relatively sudden tipping points at which they become damaging. One example seems to be beta blockers, which at some threshold level start to have a much more than proportional deleterious effect on male function. My question - is there any guide to spotting things that have thresholds above which downside effects increase disproportionately? I'm sorry this is a bit vague.

Moving on, someone on this board recently accused me of being a diplomat, to which I responded that I only knew one professional diplomat at all well and I'm not actually certain that I really like him. I tend to see him as a bit of a manipulative near bully. You on the other hand have accused me of being a leader, which is very flattering, dear Lotus, but why? If I'm any sort of leader I think I am more like the Duke of Plaza Toro, who led his regiment from behind - he found it less exciting. And when away his regiment ran - his place was in the fore-o.

Hugs and best wishes

Hi Annie,

This may be a two or three parter, lol. First let me address this please:

You on the other hand have accused me of being a leader, which is very flattering, dear Lotus, but why? If I'm any sort of leader I think I am more like the Duke of Plaza Toro, who led his regiment from behind - he found it less exciting. And when away his regiment ran - his place was in the fore-o.

What's in a leader: (IMO)

Leaders come in all forms, those that can inspire rather than intimidate, those who can speak to you rather than at you!!!. Some leaders never get the message from a superior (or pulled aside to say you can't speak to people that way) about their bullish behavior. You see that kind of behavior doesn't impress or inspire anyone. I suspect this person has never had this benefit of the doubt, and if by chance they have and still behave in the bullish mentality then they'll never get it, and be doomed or never be taken seriously by anyone.

Why I think you're a leader:

You carefully craft and word your posts as an intellectual would, it's not overbearing or overstated. Your travels in life have molded you into the person you are today, somebody that inspires by mere words alone. So in my book you truly are a leader, and again, a leader doesn't have to be overbearing to get their point across. When a leader leaves a room you know it, I've had the pleasure to work for some awe inspiring people, and I took from all those leaders and made my own leadership style. Did I make mistakes?, hell yea!!!, but I learned, albeit the hard way, lol.

Hi Lotus,

I ended up here because I was looking for a place to put some questions to you. First the technical ones.

The mixture seems to be working: my breasts are more tender than they've been for a while, and I seem to be getting noticeable (to my wife) butt growth. My question - is there any downside to this sort of mix?

Well, having breasts feel tender and additional junk in the trunk doesn't appear to have a downside. However, I do understand what you're asking. I would just say keep an eye on the interactions, such as new onset symptoms versus ongoing issues. Sometimes these lines get blurred, for instance the sites provided below give an example of what I'm talking about, knowing what an interaction is vs an underlying cause.

Examples:

Iron and Iron Deficiency
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/vitamins/iron.html

Iron deficiency anemia
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001610/

Or potassium and blood sugar:

Low Glucose & Potassium
http://www.livestrong.com/article/538677-low-glucose-potassium/


High Blood Glucose Levels & Potassium
http://www.livestrong.com/article/334474-high-blood-glucose-levels-potassium/

Annie, I'll be curious to learn how it works out for you, please let me know!.

ps. Go with the Greek yogurt, it's thicker (has double the protein, 1/2 the sodium and less carbs).

I'm still trying to find a suitable reply to your post on leadership - you take a broad view. Let me say that I am greatly impressed and most respectful of the hard work and the style in which you have become an invaluable pillar of this 'biological males' forum. If you hadn't dropped the Mistress, I would say 'Hail, Mistress!'. Now there's leadership for you!

In fact I have been surprised that I have from time to time to time somehow found myself leading people into quite considerable projects, which seems strange for someone who has often practiced self-effacement to the point of almost becoming invisible to everyone around me.

As to my 'paste', it is just a convenient way to take those things I get in powder form, and my main concern was whether the close admixture of shatavari and maca with PM would reduce the effectiveness of the PM. In fact I am of course taking various other things in the morning including as well as the paste ramiprilHCT (ACE inhibitor + diuretic), warfarin, oxybutynin, horse chestnut, a multivitamin & mineral pill and a CoQ10, fish oil & vegetable sterol capsule. In the evening tamsulosin, diltiazem (calcium channel blocker),oxybutinin, PABA, the CoQ10 etc. capsule, and horse chestnut. For all the things that are supposed to be taken spaced apart there are not enough hours in the day!

I find Greek yogurt a bit too thick to be good at taking up a lot of powder - the one I prefer calls itself Balkan yogurt, contains no added carbs and in the amount I use, very little in the way of sugars.

Thanks again

Hi Annie,

As to my 'paste', it is just a convenient way to take those things I get in powder form, and my main concern was whether the close admixture of shatavari and maca with PM would reduce the effectiveness of the PM. In fact I am of course taking various other things in the morning including as well as the paste ramiprilHCT (ACE inhibitor + diuretic), warfarin, oxybutynin, horse chestnut, a multivitamin & mineral pill and a CoQ10, fish oil & vegetable sterol capsule. In the evening tamsulosin, diltiazem (calcium channel blocker),oxybutinin, PABA, the CoQ10 etc. capsule, and horse chestnut. For all the things that are supposed to be taken spaced apart there are not enough hours in the day!

Ultimately I wouldn't mix the PM, imo I wouldn't want it to lose potency along the way to E receptors because of an interaction making it less active. I have a list of supplements that when taken with certain meds will increase plasma concentrations. Meaning it will boost certain supplements, just as grapefruit juice does. I have reservations sharing the info openly for fear of somebody without experience harming themselves. I think WebMD and drugs.com has some of the best supplement interaction info out there. Peggy made a nice list here, http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19869 I'm going to add to the list ASAP, btw I added Horse Chestnut to it though.

Grapefruit juice reduces warfarin effectiveness, so I'd skip the juice for now.

Shatavari- might act like a diuretic
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1167-ASPARAGUS%20RACEMOSUS.aspx?activeIngredientId=1167&activeIngredientName=ASPARAGUS%20RACEMOSUS

Maca
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-555-MACA.aspx?activeIngredientId=555&activeIngredientName=MACA
http://www.drugs.com/npp/maca.html

Horse chestnut might act like a diuretic and might decrease blood sugar
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1055-HORSE%20CHESTNUT.aspx?activeIngredientId=1055&activeIngredientName=HORSE%20CHESTNUT

oxybutynin-This medication may cause blurred vision and may impair your thinking or reactions.
http://www.drugs.com/oxybutynin.html

Dutasteride-a potent androgen, localized edema, serious skin reactions. Tamsulosin plasma concentrations may be elevated, increasing tamsulosin exposure. Do not coadminister tamsulosin-containing products with strong CYP3A4 inhibitors (GFJ) http://www.drugs.com/ppa/dutasteride-tamsulosin-hydrochloride.html

Diltiiazem
Grapefruit and grapefruit juice may interact with diltiazem and lead to potentially dangerous effects. http://www.drugs.com/diltiazem.html

PABA - Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen.

Coenzyme Q10: CoQ10
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/supplement-guide-coenzymeq10-coq10

Ramipril
http://www.drugs.com/ramipril.html
http://www.drugs.com/drug-class/angiotensin-converting-enzyme-inhibitors.html

Just some caution concerning the interactions!!!

Thanks for the info on GFJ and Dutasteride Lotus.... I was just starting to like it too.... But I like the Dutas better

Wow!
All the research hard work and a lot of caring and love goes into everything that you do Lotus. And everyone else that brings something to the table. Leadership is so important to learn from and grow. We are in great hands helping us grow to be the best we can .
thank you both

Thanks for the info on GFJ and Dutasteride Lotus.... I was just starting to like it too.... But I like the Dutas better

Certainly Eva, please keep us informed on how it goes with the D.

Wow!
All the research hard work and a lot of caring and love goes into everything that you do Lotus. And everyone else that brings something to the table. Leadership is so important to learn from and grow. We are in great hands helping us grow to be the best we can .
thank you both

Oh thank you Connie for the very thoughtful and wonderful comments!!!.

Hi Lotus,

Thanks again for all the good information. It's good to know these things, but if we were frightened off by every possible side effect we'd never be able to take any medically active substance , natural or artificial, nor for that matter would we be able to eat anything. In our litigious society, manufacturers and suppliers are so anxious to cover their backsides with an endless list of warnings accompanying everything that we tend just to tune them out (and I suspect that Big Pharma at least relies on those who watch their ads for their latest and greatest overpriced drug simply to tune out the gabbled background refrain of side effects). Of course side effects can and do occur, but I tend to treat anything I'm starting on with caution and have on the whole been fairly lucky, except recently for gabapentin. For most people most of the time, most of the side effects don't occur, but when they do....

For what use it may be to you or anyone else, I am commenting (within square brackets) below on items in your reply to me. These comments apply strictly to my own experience and certainly do not necessarily apply to anyone else!

Hi Annie,

Ultimately I wouldn't mix the PM, imo I wouldn't want it to lose potency along the way to E receptors because of an interaction making it less active. I have a list of supplements that when taken with certain meds will increase plasma concentrations. Meaning it will boost certain supplements, just as grapefruit juice does. I have reservations sharing the info openly for fear of somebody without experience harming themselves. I think WebMD and drugs.com has some of the best supplement interaction info out there. Peggy made a nice list here, http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19869 I'm going to add to the list ASAP, btw I added Horse Chestnut to it though.

[Yes, WebMD and drugs.com are very useful. I've never noted any interactions with horse chestnut. I have seen it stated that one shouldn't take it for more than six months without medical advice and I've been taking it for more than 8 years. I tell my medical advisers about it whenever the opportunity arises but a majority simply aren't interested. They think it's just a herb and can't do anything useful.]

Grapefruit juice reduces warfarin effectiveness, so I'd skip the juice for now.

[I was in fact taking grapefruit juice in quantity together with warfarin for a long time before I ever knew that it was a potential problem, and I don't believe it had much effect on my INR scores. The information I was then given was that it -increased- warfarin effectiveness. It sometimes seems to me that almost everything is reported as being capable of modifying the effectiveness of warfarin, but in practice my experience has been that very few of them actually do so to any noticeable extent. The biggest effect I ever encountered was from amiodarone, which greatly increased its potency, while dark green vegetables containing vitamin K can significantly reduce its effectiveness and the effect of antibiotics is unpredictable but sometimes significant.]

Shatavari- might act like a diuretic
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1167-ASPARAGUS%20RACEMOSUS.aspx?activeIngredientId=1167&activeIngredientName=ASPARAGUS%20RACEMOSUS

[I find that the asparagus family in general is mildly diuretic, but in common with most other plant based diuretics that I have encountered, it does not seem to have a significant effect on blood pressure. I have the impression from the literature that I have seen that while Lasix and HCTZ are often said to work by reducing the volume of blood that the heart has to pump, in fact their real primary mode of action is something else that is not yet fully understood.]

Maca
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-555-MACA.aspx?activeIngredientId=555&activeIngredientName=MACA
http://www.drugs.com/npp/maca.html

Horse chestnut might act like a diuretic and might decrease blood sugar
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1055-HORSE%20CHESTNUT.aspx?activeIngredientId=1055&activeIngredientName=HORSE%20CHESTNUT
[Not that I've noticed.]

oxybutynin-This medication may cause blurred vision and may impair your thinking or reactions.
http://www.drugs.com/oxybutynin.html

[For me, the most tiresome side effect is dry eyes, for my wife, dry mouth. Our NP tried me out instead on Toviaz (fesoteridine) which is seemingly being pushed by Pfizer as having less severe side effects. She (the NP) had a whole shelf full of free samples, but I found no improvement in the dry eyes and it was less effective than the oxybutinin, and would probably have been more expensive.]

Dutasteride-a potent androgen, localized edema, serious skin reactions. Tamsulosin plasma concentrations may be elevated, increasing tamsulosin exposure. Do not coadminister tamsulosin-containing products with strong CYP3A4 inhibitors (GFJ) http://www.drugs.com/ppa/dutasteride-tamsulosin-hydrochloride.html

[I have never taken Dutasteride. When I started on oxybutinin to control the spasms caused by my bladder stones (I am supposed finally to have laser lithotripsy at the end of this month to get rid of these) I asked if I need continue with the tamsulosin if the spasms were caused by the stones and not by BPH, but was told that it worked synergistically with the oxybutynin.]

Diltiazem
Grapefruit and grapefruit juice may interact with diltiazem and lead to potentially dangerous effects. http://www.drugs.com/diltiazem.html

[Not that I've noticed. As a CCB, diltiazem has the advantage that it helps stabilize heart rate and meant that I was able to go off digoxin. It is a little less effective than digoxin (which is yet another drug that acts as an antiandrogen and probably contributed to the final collapse of my testosterone levels), but it is good to be off something as potentially dangerous as digoxin.]

PABA - Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen.

Coenzyme Q10: CoQ10
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/supplement-guide-coenzymeq10-coq10

Ramipril
http://www.drugs.com/ramipril.html
http://www.drugs.com/drug-class/angiotensin-converting-enzyme-inhibitors.html

[I understand that ramipril is also protective against type 2 diabetes. An oddity, due I am told to some peculiar deal between drug companies is that ramiprilHCT is very substantially cheaper than ramipril on its own. This is how I came to be taking HCTZ in place of Lasix. A side benefit is that some insurance companies have a peculiar hang-up about lasix and either won't cover you or penalize you heavily if you take it. They seem to think that anyone who takes it is about to expire from heart failure.]

Just some caution concerning the interactions!!!

Hugs

Hi Annie,

I'm glad you posted this:

Thanks again for all the good information. It's good to know these things, but if we were frightened off by every possible side effect we'd never be able to take any medically active substance , natural or artificial, nor for that matter would we be able to eat anything. In our litigious society, manufacturers and suppliers are so anxious to cover their backsides with an endless list of warnings accompanying everything that we tend just to tune them out.

Hugs!!!

And thanks!!