I have a friend (maybe 'acquaintance' is a better description), a retired police officer, who after retirement feminized her body top to bottom. She passes for a woman in most situations, but I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

She passes for a woman...

Awesome, no problem there right?

I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

Today's standards? ........what are those exactly?. She obviously doesn't care what society thinks about her gender status. That in itself makes this individual (friend/acquaintance) a remarkable person, I'd be happy to call her my friend, not insult her.

Btw, PM is "NOT" hrt. PM shows more affinity for estrogen receptor beta (aka-ER-b) that's the protective receptor. Erstogen receptor alpha (aka-ER-a) is the growth receptor (science backs that up, which has already been posted inside BN multiple times).

If PM is so mammaogenic where's all the C and D-cups to prove it??, or.....why do we find the need to increase the dosage and supplement with other herbs!.

Lotus, why is it that you only respond to my posts when you find an opportunity to insult me? Are you still harboring bad feelings toward me?

Clara

Hardly, actually the insult came from you, and at the expense of your friend. By any standard making disparaging remarks over ones looks is an insult. Had the remarks over someone's looks been made by anyone else?......I'd still make my objection.

Btw, I believe my last comment towards you praised your courage. Voicing objection doesn't represent ill will, I thought we've moved past all that.

Out of interest, would they have been markedly different on an HRT regimen, do you think? (Not that I propose to follow one).

It's hard to say. What is interesting is when PM gets carried over to hrt from nbe. The two receptor proteins (alpha and beta) are well documented, the relationship between NBE, HRT, Breast Cancer is somewhat tied together, and explains how/why growth is mediated.

Role of receptor complexes in the extranuclear actions of estrogen receptor a in breast cancer
http://erc.endocrinology-journals.org/content/13/Supplement_1/S3.full.pdf


We've seen folks on hrt return to nbe, and then go back on hrt. Receptor mediated growth (or lack thereof) explains quite a bit. For instance (and this will sound crazy) you've heard the term "they have good genes, or the good genes passed on, etc etc, its quite possible and directly related to the amount of breast growth genes (per this example), imo it best describes the relationship between small breasted to large breasted women ( put men in this group too, since we have the same receptors).

I tend to look at how these proteins (enzymes) are structured, meaning what influences the binding process, e.g. protein kinase or the phosphorylation of proteins, PPK, TNF receptor family, cAMP, caveolin, with signaling proteins, G-proteins, Src-like kinases, I mean the list goes on and on.

Tap into signaling pathways (intracellular) or.... what inhibits cells migration ..... LBD (ligand binding domain) which is mediated somewhere @ 66% of ER-a domain and the doors start opening for breast growth......well....that's certainly my opinion. All the research is there, it's just interpreting into language humans can understand, easy right?.

Oh, to be a biological scientist instead of a computer jockey...

B.

Hardly, actually the insult came from you, and at the expense of your friend. By any standard making disparaging remarks over ones looks is an insult. Had the remarks over someone's looks been made by anyone else?......I'd still make my objection.

Btw, I believe my last comment towards you praised your courage. Voicing objection doesn't represent ill will, I thought we've moved past all that.

Thank you for the praise, Lotus.

I want to make sure that the intent and meaning of my post is not lost here. There was no insult. If my words are interpreted in the context of the entire post it's clear that my assessment of her appearance was important to the point I was trying to make about self-acceptance. I could have made a similar statement about any number of MTF transsexuals, including myself. It's nearly impossible to undo the ravages of male puberty and aging. I was actually paying my friend a heartfelt complement for her success in dealing with this reality.

I have a friend (maybe 'acquaintance' is a better description), a retired police officer, who after retirement feminized her body top to bottom. She passes for a woman in most situations, but I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain. She refuses to characterize her gender identity as either male or female, insisting that she identifies simply "as myself". Yes, legally she's classified as female, and she accepts that over the alternative, but it's not important to her to conform to society's concept of what being female is about. I think she has a very healthy attitude about her gender, and has adapted well to the life changes that transition required. I've fallen back on her example several times in dealing with my own inability to emulate my ideal woman image which I know I can never achieve for the same reasons that Bryony expressed.

Time and time again I find evidence that the happiest among us are those that find a way to be true to ourselves, however that is accomplished. It's different for each person, and it's by no means easy, but if you can arrive at that state of mind at some point in your life, it really doesn't get any better than that.

Clara

The point is, most of us late transitioners struggle with the mismatch between our gender identity and our physical bodies. As much as we try to bring the two into alignment, there are things that just can't be corrected. Does that mean that those of us who will never fully pass as women can't find happiness living in our true gender? Hopefully not. We do the best we can with the physical bodies we have, given the available resources, and then work on the remaining psychological issues as best we can.

Clara

Thank you for clarification Clara (sorry...no pun intended). You certainly didn't owe me an explanation, but I'm glad you did, I understand now.

Thanks.

http://www.ted.com/talks/alice_dreger_is_anatomy_destiny

An interesting talk about why male/female identification is a much more complicated topic than even most of us in this group realize.

You......look............AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you! I hope I can look even half as good as you do when I get farther along. Thank you for sharing!!!!!