I've been lurking here for a long time being stunned at the progress a lot of people on this site have made, regardless of chromosomes. I'm finally gonna try to take my mild to moderate gynecomastia to the next level. To that end, white peony has been touted as a very effective anti-androgen/pro-aromatase, and I plan to use it for those properties.

So my question is: what amount should I be taking? I've seen info on here for liquid extract, but I have 600 mg caps, which I've not seen suggested doses for. The packaging, which I doubt was written with bio-males converting their T to E in mind, suggests 1 x 600 mg twice daily, for a total daily intake of 1200 mg ground WP root. Any advice from anyone who's used WP?

Apologies if this info is on here somewhere. I did search and tried digging through some of the super-threads already but came up empty.

Hello.

Welcome to the forum.

I've never used white peony, but there are a number of users who have experience with it. Two that come to mind are AbiDrew and Lenneth. They may have their dosages listed in their NBE programs. Lotus may also be another person that has useful information on this topic.

Thanks I'll check out their program pages. I'm sure Lotus, the master of mammary methods , probably has good info, too. It was Lotus' incredibly in-depth threads that steered me toward WP, after all!

dee-elle,

Hi there,

Lurking 3+ years, that's a long time, glad to hear from you..., (thank you for the lovely comments)

The most current find was this:

Pure Light Chinese peony, helping oily skins to rebalance
http://www.naolys.com/media/pure_light_chinese_peony_en.pd

Quote: a significant inhibition of 5 alpha reductase is inhibited @ 23% compared with finasteride, that induces an inhibition of 38%.

Pure Light Chinese peony acts on different levels of epidermis before and after the phenomena of sebum surproduction by the sebaceous glands. First, it limits the quantity of the enzyme 5 alpha-reductase, which is at the origin of the activity of the hormon responsible for the production of sebum.

Paeonia lactiflora decreases testosterone production by inhibiting the conversion of delta 4-androstenedione to testosterone in the ovary, while stimulating aromatase activity in the ovary to promote estradiol synthesis.

The first pass metabolism destroys 80-85% of a product, so I try to opt for liquid or sublingual dosage. Although, here recently I think adding an oral combination with sublingual could be beneficial. A likely scenario (imo) 80% sublingual, 15% transdermal, and 5% oral (or something similar).

metabolism taking detours lol.

I have used peony root extract for over a year.
I buy from herbs of light - "paeonia officinatlis"
They recommend the dose :
20-30 drops in water or juice x 3 times a day
190 mg of herb in 20 drops

What I use......5~6 drops sublingual in the
morning after my morning dose 1000 mg PM.
Every other day I use the same dose after my evening PM 1000 mg dose.

I have found it enhances my areolas and have been complimented on how femme they look along with the breast enlargement I'm getting from the PM.

Hope this helps as I have no experience with peony root caps

The first pass metabolism destroys 80-85% of a product, so I try to opt for liquid or sublingual dosage. Although, here recently I think adding an oral combination with sublingual could be beneficial. A likely scenario (imo) 80% sublingual, 15% transdermal, and 5% oral (or something similar).

metabolism taking detours lol.

That is disheartening. Looks like i need to switch to liquid sublingual routes

Dee, that's typical of the difference in extracts and caps of any supplement. But sublingual can be hard on the under tongue tissues, so I take one day a week off from extract.

It does bypass the liver is a plus and puts the extract directly in, just don't use too much.

HoL recommending 20~30 drops in juice seems pretty strong to me but its going thru your digestive system, So 6 to 12 a day sublingual does a good job for me.
As always YMMV....

Dee, that's typical of the difference in extracts and caps of any supplement. But sublingual can be hard on the under tongue tissues, so I take one day a week off from extract.

It does bypass the liver is a plus and puts the extract directly in, just don't use too much.

I know that that is the prevailing wisedom, but i question that a little.

Is it the liver doing the dirty work, or is it the acid and enzymes in the stomach that is breaking down the hormones into little bite size pieces that can get into the blood stream for its trip to the liver?

The liver is there to filter the blood, and all blood makes it way to and through the liver.

The lungs is the quickest way for things to get into the blood stream unchanged, followed by demal/sublingula routes. Ingestion is the poorest, which follows the traditional thoughts o

Thanks for the input everybody. Looks like I'll be phasing in liquid extract taken sublingually, and probably drop the capsules once I finish them.

I know that that is the prevailing wisedom, but i question that a little.

Is it the liver doing the dirty work, or is it the acid and enzymes in the stomach that is breaking down the hormones into little bite size pieces that can get into the blood stream for its trip to the liver?

The liver is there to filter the blood, and all blood makes it way to and through the liver.

The lungs is the quickest way for things to get into the blood stream unchanged, followed by demal/sublingula routes. Ingestion is the poorest, which follows the traditional thoughts o

DC,

It's not just 'the prevailing wisdom', it's literally how your digestive system works. Everything absorbed via the digestive system, literally, absolutely everything, goes through the liver BEFORE entering general circulation. There is a special part of the circulatory system called the Hepatic Portal Vein system that accomplishes this. There are many reasons why this happens, but the upshot for orally administered medications is that before they get to their target tissue/organ system, they are partially metabolized by the liver. This is colloquially called 'the first pass through the liver.' Everything that is absorbed via the digestive system gets a 'first pass through the liver.' This has nothing to do with stomach acid or any other digestive system function.

Dosages for oral medications are increased to allow for the first pass through the liver so that afterward they are at an effective level in the blood stream. Absorption through the lungs is certainly faster than digestive absorption, but only for medication that can safely be aerosolized. Sublingual absorption is probably just as quick and certainly safer than aspirating any powdered medication. Intramuscular administration also releases the drug directly into the circulatory system and is the preferred administration method for a more timed release that helps maintain a relatively steady amount in the blood.

Hope this helps.