Hello all, after a year on PM I switched to Estradot 100 patches (2/week) and spiro 50mg but I did not like the effect of spiro at all, even at 50mg I felt so tired all I wanted to do was sleep all day. 

Can anyone recommend a good herbal AA replacement for spiro? I have lots of spearmint tea left would this work?

thanks

While spearmint tea does work as an AA, it's a bit weaker on the scale of available products. Red Reishi mushroom powder worked wonders for me personally, and others have had success with it as well as other supplements such as White Peony. WP works wonders as it promotes aromatose of bio-available testosterone. Aromatone is the process of your own body converting testosterone into estrogen. A bit of advice though if you decide to go the WP route: Stay away from WP teas as though they were the plague itself. Most if not all White Peony teas contain absolutely NO White Peony!

While spearmint tea does work as an AA, it's a bit weaker on the scale of available products. Red Reishi mushroom powder worked wonders for me personally, and others have had success with it as well as other supplements such as White Peony. WP works wonders as it promotes aromatose of bio-available testosterone. Aromatone is the process of your own body converting testosterone into estrogen. A bit of advice though if you decide to go the WP route: Stay away from WP teas as though they were the plague itself. Most if not all White Peony teas contain absolutely NO White Peony!

As noted by GG, WP and Reishi are the to best go to, when trying to keep T low.

Using 100mg spiro and WP I am able to keep my T at 0.04.

The feeling tired could just be due to hormone changes. It normally does end up correcting its self.

Do you happen to know your bloodwork results?

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Re Reishi: I thought that the AA component of reishi had to be extracted via alcohol. Can capsules contain this? Do you have a link to the product? 

jduff: It's true that even after stopping the spiro I feel more fatigue than normal. You say that this will diminish over time? How long did it take for you to acclimate? 

thanks again.

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Re Reishi: I thought that the AA component of reishi had to be extracted via alcohol. Can capsules contain this? Do you have a link to the product? 

jduff: It's true that even after stopping the spiro I feel more fatigue than normal. You say that this will diminish over time? How long did it take for you to acclimate? 

thanks again.

I thought red rishi also does something like shut down estrogen receptors.  Thought I red that or I would start rishi a while back.

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Re Reishi: I thought that the AA component of reishi had to be extracted via alcohol. Can capsules contain this? Do you have a link to the product? 

jduff: It's true that even after stopping the spiro I feel more fatigue than normal. You say that this will diminish over time? How long did it take for you to acclimate? 

thanks again.

I use StFrancis herb farms Reishi - tincture,
from a local health food store.

I do prefair WP thou, and I get that from a Amazon supplier.

I have seen both products also on Ebay.

Yoh really need bloodwork to figure out what's going on. For instance low keytones (?) tells you that your muscle mass is dropping. This could be an indication of where your fatigue is comming from.

I get a full blood work done be my own Dr every 6 months, this is over and above anything my GD Dr wants.

[quote pid='194373' dateline='1483456746']


I thought red rishi also does something like shut down estrogen receptors.  Thought I red that or I would start rishi a while back.
[/quote]

I'll have to look into that one ...

Lotus?

I thought red rishi also does something like shut down estrogen receptors.  Thought I red that or I would start rishi a while back.


I'll have to look into that one ...

Lotus?

I don't see this happening in my opinion, is there any specific evidence?. On a natural spiro product it's going to come from a substance that inhibits the CYP2C9 enzyme, see further info here:

http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=17436&page=394

Listed in the Anti-Androgen thread and is often overlooked is that Reishi "has" estrogenic properties and at the same time addresses DHT, which makes it a Win-Win.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 The ability to bind to human estrogen receptors (hERs) α and β of the ethanol extract of G. lucidum was confirmed by using the coactivator-bacterial alkaline phosphatase system. 

Estrogen-like activity of ethanol extract of Ganoderma lucidum
Abstract
The ethanol extract from the fruiting body of Ganoderma lucidum was tested for its estrogen-like activity by using the cell proliferation assay (MCF-7 cells, human breast cancer cells), as well as the estrogen receptor binding assay, and pS2 mRNA expression assay in MCF-7 cells in vitro and uterotrophic assay in vivo. The ethanol extract of G. lucidum showed significant positive effects on the proliferation of MCF-7 cells. This proliferation effect is related to the estrogenic activity of G. lucidum, because this proliferation activity was inhibited by the addition of the antiestrogenic compound ICI 182,780. The ability to bind to human estrogen receptors (hERs) α and β of the ethanol extract of G. lucidum was confirmed by using the coactivator-bacterial alkaline phosphatase system. ER-dependent cell responsibilities were investigated by examining the regulation of gene transcription for pS2 in MCF-7 cells. Our results demonstrated that the pS2 mRNA levels are significantly increased by the ethanol extract of G. lucidumvia an estrogen-like manner. Additionally, young rats that received the ethanol extract of G. lucidum (200 mg/kg per day) for 3 days showed a significant increase (growth approximately twofold compared with the control group) in uterine weight after each treatment, which supports the estrogen-like activity of the ethanol extract of G. lucidum in vivo. It was concluded that the ethanol extract of G. lucidum showed estrogen-like activity, which may be useful in regulating hormone levels to treat related diseases such as osteoporosis if safety is fully guaranteed.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10086-008-0992-2



Inhibition of 5α-reductase results in decreased conversion of testosterone to DHT, leading to increased testosterone and estradiol. Other enzymes compensate to a degree for the absent conversion, spec voifically with local expression at the skin of reductive 17b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, oxidative 3a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, and 3b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes. Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. 5-α reductase 2 is the one we're interested in,


Chapter 9Ganoderma lucidum (Lingzhi or Reishi)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92757/
A Medicinal Mushroom

 Triterpene content ranged from undetectable to 7.8% and the polysaccharide content varied from 1.1–5.8% (Chang and Buswell 2008). Such variations can occur for several reasons, including differences in the species or strains of mushroom used and differences in production methods.





 

I searched around for some Reishi and found this...

https://barlowesherbalelixirs.com/general-health/77-reishi-extract-with-triterpenes.hml

6% Triterpenes is very good and seems to be substantiated with a 'Certificate of Analysis'. 

My one concern is that reishi is referred to alternately as an immunity 'booster' or immunity 'regulator'. I have auto-immune issues (Sjogrens/Raynauds) so regulating is good but boosting would be bad, my immune system is overactive as it is.