[ILoveCold]

So I've been on Fenugreek (Nutricost) brand 2700mg daily. I used for 2 months and i haven't really had any difference ot any sign of budding. 
The anti-androgen I'm using is ;
Red Reishi (17%Polysa.) 1100mg daily and Green Tea extract (45% EGCG) 900mg daily.

As i said it's been 2 months yet i didn't really had any noticable changes, yes i had the maple syrup smell but that's it. I'm considering trying Red Clover but i don't really know what to go for at this point.

I should also add that, in where i live, PM, BO and WP is inaccessible.

[Marica]

Hi ILoveCold, welcome aboard. Two months are few to see any real change. If I’m not wrong, I remember that somewhere in the threads was reported that RR should be at least 40% of polysaccharides… The brand that I was using some months ago had 50% and worked well for me, but I was with Ainterol PM too and after with BO.
Ainterol and/or IHerb doesn’t send where you live ? I bought directly from their sites a lot of months ago.

[ILoveCold]

Ainterol and/or IHerb doesn’t send where you live ? I bought directly from their sites a lot of months ago.

Where i live, the importing of vitamins/supplements are banned. I'd have to show a prescription to get it from overseas (i once ordered PM and it went through the customs but they asked me for doctor's prescription and since i didn't have one it was sent back to the seller).

[IanW55]

Hi,

The problem as far as I can see, you do not say what part of the world you live in, (hell is no use to anyone) this restricts members, helping by suggesting where you can get what you need to obtain breast's.

From what I am reading, you are going to throw your money away, then get despondant then stop, only suggesting not telling.

Best wishes
Ian

[ILoveCold]

Hi,

The problem as far as I can see, you do not say what part of the world you live in, (hell is no use to anyone) this restricts members, helping by suggesting where you can get what you need to obtain breast's.

From what I am reading, you are going to throw your money away, then get despondant then stop, only suggesting not telling.

Best wishes
Ian

I really hate where i live so i usually try not to bring it up. And it's not something I'd like to put on my profile. But well, yeah sorry. I live in Turkey

[IanW55]

Hi,

Ok fully understand, you do not need to expand on this as the recent events on the news speaks for itself thanks anyway, I doubt there will be many members who can help given your location.

Thinking about you and wish you good luck and stay safe
Ian

[Marica]

Ainterol and/or IHerb doesn’t send where you live ? I bought directly from their sites a lot of months ago.

Where i live, the importing of vitamins/supplements are banned. I'd have to show a prescription to get it from overseas (i once ordered PM and it went through the customs but they asked me for doctor's prescription and since i didn't have one it was sent back to the seller).

An alternative, if it could be an acceptable option for you, is DIY HRT.

[prostatenipple]

Hi ILoveCold,

Welcome

Given the country and the rules you have to follow, I wonder if you are mostly there, and just need to tweak slightly what you are taking to make it work.

It (the NBE / breast growth) does take time! I'm about 3 years in, taking high doses of PM and only recently (last 2 weeks) had my right side start feeling painful like maybe it's started budding. My left side is now confirmed with ultrasound that it's budded.

Given that you have access to:

• Fenugreek (2700mg daily)
  
• Red Reishi (17%Polysa.) 1100mg daily
  
• Green Tea extract (45% EGCG) 900mg daily
  

You might not be missing much.

The info I've got that I compiled up (from Lotus and others on this forum) says:

You only need one Anti-androgen, such as Red Rishi, White Peony or Saw Palmetto, but there are others if you cannot get these. 

You only need one Phytoestrogen, such as Pueraria Mirifica, Fenugreek, Red Clover, Fennel (there are so many)

and hopefully, a Progesterone source, such as Wild yam.

Additional useful supplements, such as MSM, Vitamin C, Calcium/Zinc/Magnesium supplement, might be likely also locally available.

and:

Fenugreek - is a [[Prolactin]] source, a type of [[Phytoestrogen]], [[Adaptogen]], lowers blood sugars (caution).

and:

> While FG is a good choice, if I'm not mistaken, Lotus once wrote that in terms of [[Phytoestrogen]] strength, [[Pueraria Mirifica]] was #1 and [[Red Clover]] is #2, followed by [[Fenugreek]] & others.

> I am saying that FG is an effective [[Phytoestrogen]]... yes. However, as you may well know, an [[Anti-androgen]] accompaniment (such as RR or WP or Finasteride) makes it more effective.

and:

# Fenugreek vs PM

Anyways, depending on how much slow changes you want, you can choose one OR another, more specifically:

- if you want **slower** changes, take Fenugreek. Less side effects, but higher dosages required.
- if you want **moderate** changes, take Pueraria Mirifica (low dose like 500 mg or less). Rare side effects at very low dosages, and sensible  "puffiness" can be felt easier.

 
Remember to NOT TAKE BOTH together, can't say why here, but it's known they have bad interaction together. Also PM is quite good and can be used for faster changes, but remember it is usually taken with some other supplements like Anti-Androgens (Reishi, White Peony), so alone is way weaker. 
I suggest reading some members program, more specifically Lotus offcial threads (the first pages not all 400+ of them).

There's lots of other info I have but it would take too much time to paste it here.

The point being, it seems you have:

• your anti-androgen (red-reishi, it's a 5-aR inhibitor)
  
• your phytoestrogen (fenugreek)
  
• your pro-aromatase (Green Tea extract seems to do this, but not sure on my notes)
  

You might consider:

• Increasing your Red-Reishi dose very slightly higher. Or making sure it's a high-strength version. The one I have is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156017523635
  
• Increasing your Fenugreek dose. Possibly by a lot. You have to be careful that it doesn't cause you a bad decrease in blood-sugar. The one I bought and used in the past is this one: (14,400 mg extract per capsule)  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224041775054
  

And then it takes time.

[ILoveCold]

Hi ILoveCold,

Welcome

Given the country and the rules you have to follow, I wonder if you are mostly there, and just need to tweak slightly what you are taking to make it work.

It (the NBE / breast growth) does take time! I'm about 3 years in, taking high doses of PM and only recently (last 2 weeks) had my right side start feeling painful like maybe it's started budding. My left side is now confirmed with ultrasound that it's budded.

Given that you have access to:

• Fenugreek (2700mg daily)
  
• Red Reishi (17%Polysa.) 1100mg daily
  
• Green Tea extract (45% EGCG) 900mg daily
  

You might not be missing much.

The info I've got that I compiled up (from Lotus and others on this forum) says:

You only need one Anti-androgen, such as Red Rishi, White Peony or Saw Palmetto, but there are others if you cannot get these. 

You only need one Phytoestrogen, such as Pueraria Mirifica, Fenugreek, Red Clover, Fennel (there are so many)

and hopefully, a Progesterone source, such as Wild yam.

Additional useful supplements, such as MSM, Vitamin C, Calcium/Zinc/Magnesium supplement, might be likely also locally available.

and:

Fenugreek - is a [[Prolactin]] source, a type of [[Phytoestrogen]], [[Adaptogen]], lowers blood sugars (caution).

and:

> While FG is a good choice, if I'm not mistaken, Lotus once wrote that in terms of [[Phytoestrogen]] strength, [[Pueraria Mirifica]] was #1 and [[Red Clover]] is #2, followed by [[Fenugreek]] & others.

> I am saying that FG is an effective [[Phytoestrogen]]... yes. However, as you may well know, an [[Anti-androgen]] accompaniment (such as RR or WP or Finasteride) makes it more effective.

and:

# Fenugreek vs PM

Anyways, depending on how much slow changes you want, you can choose one OR another, more specifically:

- if you want **slower** changes, take Fenugreek. Less side effects, but higher dosages required.
- if you want **moderate** changes, take Pueraria Mirifica (low dose like 500 mg or less). Rare side effects at very low dosages, and sensible  "puffiness" can be felt easier.

 
Remember to NOT TAKE BOTH together, can't say why here, but it's known they have bad interaction together. Also PM is quite good and can be used for faster changes, but remember it is usually taken with some other supplements like Anti-Androgens (Reishi, White Peony), so alone is way weaker. 
I suggest reading some members program, more specifically Lotus offcial threads (the first pages not all 400+ of them).

There's lots of other info I have but it would take too much time to paste it here.

The point being, it seems you have:

• your anti-androgen (red-reishi, it's a 5-aR inhibitor)
  
• your phytoestrogen (fenugreek)
  
• your pro-aromatase (Green Tea extract seems to do this, but not sure on my notes)
  

You might consider:

• Increasing your Red-Reishi dose very slightly higher. Or making sure it's a high-strength version. The one I have is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156017523635
  
• Increasing your Fenugreek dose. Possibly by a lot. You have to be careful that it doesn't cause you a bad decrease in blood-sugar. The one I bought and used in the past is this one: (14,400 mg extract per capsule)  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224041775054
  

And then it takes time.

Unfortunately i can't order from eBay, i can but i tried before and it just got sent back from the customs, no vitamins/supplements allowed from overseas.

I'm wondering, what about regular fenugreek? Like ground fenugreek. Would it work? It's a lot cheaper and i can take it in high amounts because of that.

[prostatenipple]

Regular fenugreek might work, but you might need to take a lot of it.

The ones that are in supplements tend to be ones with a large percentage of saponins.