[Pansy-Mae]

Chrishoney,
Thanks for this.

Your own experiences with herbs then PM/SP, sound remarkably similar to mine, and I've said several times that I have doubts about the effectiveness of SP, on myself at least.

I was prescribed Finasteride about 3 weeks ago by my GP, and dropped the small amount of SP I was taking. I realise that a couple of weeks is nowhere near long enough for anything definitive, but I can't say that so far I've noticed the slightest difference in either boob growth at one end or prostate effects at the other! ( I have noticed an increase in leg and foot cramps at night though. I had them before but they had stopped. I don't know if it is relevant or just coincidence)

I may be wrong, but I believe that Chrissie has grown to about a C cup and sfem has got to where she wants to be, just on PM with little or no SP.

Then again, I wonder how age and naturally changing hormone levels affect this. Perhaps as we age the T --> DHT conversion is less effective anyway, so the effects of SP are minimal? That could tend to tie in with the natural growth of man-boobs in older males.

[dargona]

Well back on high dosages of SP and i can definitely feel the bloat.. weight gain is incredibly stupid as im eating mostly fruits/vegetables and whole grains but I have no energy and just feel crappy. I also still notice hair falling out of my head in the shower on nearly 4000mg SP a day. When i wasnt taking the SP last week I finally felt as thogh i had energy and was losing some weight... if my hair is going to fall out anyways then i might as well take the weight loss+natural food energy and get rid of the bloat, thanks for the link chris ill be sure to look into that as a replacement. I should also get back to drinking mint tea as well for said antiandrogenic properties.

[beverley.rose]

Very extensive. Thanks ChrisHoney. Since I am not a medical/biology buff this stuff does not always make sense to me. Now, if it was nuclear physics or applied maths....

As part of our great experiment I have stopped SP this morning (I was on 2000mg per day) and we will see if the PM starts to produce effects or if I see any difference in how I feel.

I have to say that there have been effects. I have become more emotional. I cry very easily now, something I never did before and I cannot hold the tears back. My sweat is less pungent. I put on an old coat yesterday and I could smell my previous 'musk' from it. Body hair is finer and my waist is higher than before.

As regards weight gain on FG/SP, I have lost 30lbs since January. Maybe without SP I would have lost 40lbs????

Beverley

[sfem]

Readers who have been around for some time know that my NBE history is similar to chrishoney and pansy-mae's. I did a year on SP, FG, fennel, with a little WY and blessed thistle here and there. I did get some results, but not very much. I switched to PM, and within a few weeks dropped the rest of it except for FG, which I continued at a reduced level because I found it helped my IBS. Within a few months of starting PM (dates not to scale I dropped the FG as well. Most of my development happened while I was on PM.

I had a small area starting to lose hair where my grandfather lost his, before I started on any NBE. During the year on the herb mix which included SP, that area continued to grow and become more noticeable. I just assumed that my genetics were such that I was going to lose most of it like my grandfather. In light of this topic, I took a few minutes and looked through some photos taken over the last year. I was surprised to note that my balding area has not only stopped growing, it has filled in some. I hadn't really noticed it before. That has to be the PM. My diet hasn't changed in the past year. Oh and my weight gain happened while I was on the weaker herbs, but I cannot say which one it was. I haven't gotten rid of the extra weight, but I think the blame for it is on my lack of will to fix it, not on the PM.

[vmiku914]

Lots of interesting info! I did like what Pansy-mae mentioned about "if it ain't broke then don't fix it." I am not having any hair loss (in fact it increased in growth speed and fullness with PM), my acne cleared up once I went to 2000MGthe from 500-1000., and I don't have oily skin anymore. I will just stick to my routine then :-)

My question was more a concern for the future.

[chrissie]

When I started on PM, I also took SP. I felt lousy and abandoned the SP, which improved how I felt. So, after a few weeks I was on PM only. I did try wild yam, which, at the time, I felt helped. I now am just on PM and getting thr diggest spurt, in growth, I have experienced.

[dargona]

Yea, I can say that after dropping SP after my last bloat-fest I am feeling a lot better and have more energy. I am pretty sure I'll either be switching to Pygeum or sticking to PM, PM+RC during progesterone ramp-up.