[dawn]

Oh what do do.... hugs

Relax and enjoy the ride? 

Sounds so nice...I understand the trepidation though. Don't know what I will do when I reach that point.

We're all in a state of transition once we start down this path...we may continue to "present  male" but after a while male is only "skin deep". imo

Look at the males staying males section. It's emptier than a tub of ice cream at fat camp.

[Stevenator.]

Oh what do do.... hugs

Relax and enjoy the ride? 

Sounds so nice...I understand the trepidation though. Don't know what I will do when I reach that point.

We're all in a state of transition once we start down this path...we may continue to "present  male" but after a while male is only "skin deep". imo

Look at the males staying males section. It's emptier than a tub of ice cream at fat camp.

LoL! 

It’s funny, because it’s true!

[johnnyboy7585]

It is indeed a slippery slope. Ive been off and on BO since 2014. I keep going back. The diereses to keep going, ugh crazy. Any of these herbs, over a long time do alter ones mindset. I myself, along with others here share the same feels. It can be a bit overwhelming. The changes do happen sometimes faster then one thinks. I wanted a more fem body. But I didn't expect the mind changes. Yea, we hear about it, but when it happens to you in real life, its scary. I find myself at this point just wishing I was a women to be honest.

[Breastquest]

It is indeed a slippery slope. Ive been off and on BO since 2014. I keep going back. The diereses to keep going, ugh crazy. Any of these herbs, over a long time do alter ones mindset. I myself, along with others here share the same feels. It can be a bit overwhelming. The changes do happen sometimes faster then one thinks. I wanted a more fem body. But I didn't expect the mind changes. Yea, we hear about it, but when it happens to you in real life, its scary. I find myself at this point just wishing I was a women to be honest.

If you are only wanting breasts, I HIGHLY recommend Binaural beats or Affirmations. Go to Youtube and search or Binaural beats for Affirmations breast enlargement. You will get many hits. Start listening to them, you must use headphones. Listen to many until you find one that you like, then listen to it exclusively. Listen in your sleep, listen in your car, just listen as much as possible.
Several benefits from BB's is that there are no pills to take, no needles, no creams and it's FREE.
Once you really begin to understand how to use them you will learn that different beats can cause your breasts to have different shapes.
I have one beat that makes my boobs heavy on the top inside (makes them hard to hide), I use one that makes them heavy on the bottom outside (they do brush up against my arms more though but they are easier to hide).
I imagine if you search well enough, you could find a beat to undo some of your unwanted attributes, these beats work and are very powerful. Anyone that says that they don't work, haven't used them in a highly scheduled environment.

[happyboobs]

OK, so I wrote this on the pc 4 days before I posted the thread. Anyway so here we are about a week later from what I 1st said, and I guess not just the fat transitional movements, but the huge amount of muscle loss. IS it normal at some point that the muscle loss can be that drastic in like 2 months and a week? Even my under bust is 1" smaller and it looks way smaller under the rib cage, no side shoulders left at all, yep overall stregth too is already I would say 30% less even compared to 3 month ago, and the real kicker is that:

I can even take my ring finger and thumb and wrap around my wrist till they touch. 2 Months ago I could not have even reached with the middle finger and thumb. So when I read about height, that is the one that shocks me too. So far still the same, feet and hands seem about the same but thinner and way better skin

[Stevenator.]

I never noticed a reduction in band size, as I’m a fairly barrel chested guy as it is. I’ve never been all that muscular, so I never really noticed much of a loss of muscle tone. Loss of strength was apparent at my job where I’m constantly lifting, and at the house working on the property. I get tired from physical work much easier.

I noticed all the previously mentioned physical changes around the same time frame. It was a shock at first. The so-called pelvic tilt is often blamed on cartilage loss, but I’m not convinced. I’ve had co-workers ask if I have scoliosis. I have a definite tilt and a ghetto booty. I’ve noticed thinner forearms, hands & feet. My calves are thinner. I attribute that to fat shifting. 

My skin is gloriously smooth, and although I consider myself 100% male, man with boobs, I love the physical changes. I’m not happy how much all of this is a trade-off with male function, but it is a manageable frustrating. Probably best with lower doses and scheduled breaks. 

As long as myface doesn’t show major changes, I’m all for getting more physical changes & gains. I dread any potential facial changes, but I fear my hips & ass have already betrayed me. At this point in the NBE timeline, there’s not much fighting what has already happened. LoL. I just embrace the new me, and carry on.

[Pandora56]

Everyone here has similar experiences when it comes to the Estrogen Fairy. 

Once Pandora's box is open it's a bit difficult to close or damn near impossible.  Steve puts it perfectly about all the things to anticipate when it comes to messing with your endocrine system and I must say its been one hell of a transition. 

First you get the headaches because your pituitary axis starts shifting and your stool becomes softer. After a week you acclimate and then all these amazing things start happening that wasn't expect or anticipated. Since NBEers have an affinity to these desires we seem to crave them more and more. Some find a happy medium but some make the complete change whom never thought they would want too. 

Sure there is some kick back from our Adrenal and thymus glands because we are messing with our biological functions of basic survival and reproduction but mind over matter proves to be the primary force to our breast growing desires. 

My initial goal was to feminize my body but it has gotten pretty intense to the point where I might have to present as female in the future because honestly all these years of B.O and Progynova have changed me. A metamorphosis, like a louts flower I have sprung! 

Even my mother commented to me yesterday that my legs are a lot smaller and people keep asking me why I'm so skinny now. I'm honest with some and lie to others. I hope to be fully out and about of my endeavors to everyone so physiologically I can stop having anxiety about losing my masculinity and stop pretending I'm this uber masculine warrior male facade I used to put up. 

Keep in mind i used to be 190 pounds pure muscle, I was squatting near 400 pounds and benching 215 for reps of 8, full 6 pack, almost 20 inch arms, massive legs, I looked like a Greek God but I just wasn't satisfied. 


Now I'm at 162, with wilting muscles and a girly figure. People who knew me from my past who see me now say I'm almost unrecognizable. So let this be a warning to those who are on the fence or don't really know if this is for them.  You will change, you will want more, and its hard to stop. It's just something about the female figure that is so special to me I wanted to become it. I wasn't satisfied with having it near me, I had to become her and low and behold she is almost here.  

~Pandora

[catbeginner]

So I will keep this on the topic, but I will add to it once this thread gets running.

So to kick it off I just wanted to get some breast growth and over the years did some methods like NatureDay and a few herbs, never got much. Found this site about a year ago and read about PM and read a lot a lot of many Lotus threads, tips and experiences from others on the board.

So I dove into PM slowly after reading a lot here and other places. Thought it was BS and a lot of Hype, did not do the BO route-path since I did not want to be a full women. So PM it was, 1st time use 500mg a day, then up to 1000mg a day. Added lots of D+ calcium and vitamins, all good stuff to trigger HGH etc. No issues and after a few weeks but could tell something was going on. Lots of itching, soreness even at week 3, then, after I would say 6 weeks for sure had small lumps aka buds ( never ever had them before).

So fast forward at 3 months took some time off and way could see I started looking way more fem in the chest and more like breast and quickly jumped to a full 38 A but closer to a 40A band would have been better. Rest of me still way a lot of muscle rest of features etc very male. Buds got and felt pretty darn big, worried about the lumps and they hurt BAD as hell for a while, they are still there about a year later but dont hurt and seen to cover more of the breast.

Went off and on PM and added a few other Amino acids, MSM, good vitamins, started eating a lot more soy, milk, cheese, dairy stuff and lots of veggies, esp. cruciferous vegetables types as I read help with healthy breast tissues. Breast seem to love it, alll the while doing massages 2-3 times a day and the breast and nipples esp areolas took off and are now female looking is size and overall look. Gradually in the next say 3 month block about 5-6 months in I way noticed my brain was thinking so so much more like a girl.

At this point I was a bit weaker but overall still looked like a guy with moobs or if I cross dressed a decent looking gal. But more male then female and a lot of mental struggles mood swings terrible at times sleep was crappy and that is never a good thing especially for HGH and any type of body growth muscles etc.

OK so then at about month 8 still similar to above but now a small 38 B lacking top and some side tissues, but never conical in shape, I decided I would try Progesterone cream. Well whala, made me sleep better, no effects at all... well at 1st. Moods so much better too and great sleep. Then after 2 weeks I took a break from everything for 2 weeks, them went back on PM for a month no PC at this time, then added PC back and it was like a turbo charger to the engine. My skin hair, nails, lashes etc that already were very soft and very female, my entire body then went into over drive it seemed and I loved it.

Then about month 10 I way started feeling like crap on PM, so I cut back to 500mg a day max, not so much the leg cramp issues, added even more D3, Calcium of all types and even more water, potassium, magnesium etc. Well regardless what I did or do stomach was way NOT happy, no energy just felt like hell, so I stopped. NOTE to backup a few months, I did try fenugreek and tried mothers milk tea and other herbs used, but never a T blocker. PM was the killer was making me ill now so I have stopped for near 2 months now.

From what I can tell the PC for me acted like a major T blocker and not only did my breast fill out a lot, but now my 38 B cup bras are tight in the cups, and the bands that were tight and now way comfy to point I go in one set of hooks to snug up. I can way feel all the glands and such in the breast not just fat.  I surely dont want to be a full time C cup, can not even think about how to hide that much. 

It seemed like my arms, back etc were getting smaller and at a very fast pace. My wife even commented that I have a very hour glass shape and I could fit into a size 8 pants. She said they feel like hers and said my legs are girly. I dont even ask, these were her comments us watching TV. I also noticed that my legs mostly inner thighs were rubbing a lot when sitting and at night even sweating and seem to be fat and rubbing together, then in another month like say 9-10 but butt and hips matched my thighs and my waist just melted away. The upper thighs seemed to happen overnight seriously like in a week even got some cellulite on them and every aspect pubis, area you name it went soft and gained fat.. All the while I dropped in a year from 190 to 172 while gaining fat and am about 5' 11".

So now , and I can add a lot more, I went from just wanting boobs to now having no more bulging quads in legs, even look like pelvic tilt for sure has happened had a lot of lower ab pain and low back hip pain. I thought I tore something, but did not. Next my  shoulders, arms all gone and female looking in that month 10-11. Arms went fro 16 to 13. So here I am having stopped everything and it is like I am on auto pilot and it seems almost every morning I wake up I have less muscle and more curves and long lean female muscles now. it is almost 1 year now since I 1st tried PM.

So I just wanted breast, but PM made brain wiring female and I dont think just on the surface level, but at the core of my entire body. My hair I way excited about it, almost no gray and thicker too. Body hair on chest what is that? PC made the nipples at least 1/2 wider in course of a month and there is no are they male or female, they are female now all the way.

So anyone else similar results and seems like you cant get the balance correct to be both male and female? I stated wanting some breast and now even without a bra look like a women, face is so much rounder too, less wrinkles hair is awesome and body hair on chest, upper thighs is gone and thing of the past. Most all other body hair is very feminine as well.

I really need to get a hormone test, I am sure I most have been very E dominant looking back, and PM put me into the E dominance quickly and the PC made everything transition more so fast. I read that this can take many months to even years, and most MTF dont even need PC, WRONG ... well from my results,  but dam it happened to me without wanting it or expecting it in I would say 2-3 months and it rages on.

I dont want to go to a Dr and take T shots to go back the other direction, but I need it (E and PC levels +T) to level off, but it seems I broke something. I read most males using PC can even boot T levels and loose fat, but for me it took what T I had and seemed to make more E I think? Of course I have gender issues worse then ever to a point, but I love what I see to a point to, but am scared it wont stop the transitioning at all. I feel like this last growth spurt is the entire body, orgasm is difficult, lots of shrinkage there too and when I do get to having sex it is the best ever an entire whole body type of orgasm. wow, so this to me is my favorite thing, the rest is scarring me that I went to far and it happened to fast.

From the start of PM so many have stated it is such a slow process etc. so I never worried about PM or anything else going to work that good and thought this would be like NatureDay or other breast herbs and be a very difficult process just to get some boobs. And stopping will put the brakes on, and even reverse course, but for me it was like petal to the metal so to speak.  So maybe if change diet back to crappy lots of meat male type foods etc I could reverse a it more male in the waist hips, legs, but etc. I know most of the breast growth is here to stay now especially after using PC and getting all the duct and glands on to off all the bud growth.

But what if it has now tipped the scale? I really really need to get a complete hormone panel, but that scares me to know for sure what I did to me and what I will need to do to stop the continued path. I am in NO way making this up, I am one that has started, stopped in the past, pitched so many cross dressed clothes, pills etc you name. Then started up all over again. Maybe this way PRIMED the receptors.
comments, tips, help, feedback from others?
thanks..

PS
SO my take is that make sure your are OK with PM, you may like me get way more than you ever wanted. And to fast to cope with too. I was OK with the growth spurts but never the bottom going that fast and that much so soon. I was thinking at any point I could put the brakes on. But I think the master cylinder is broken maybe?

One More Comment
I also never expected that much brain re-wire from PM either... I still do not want to transition or ever do Pharma. I just wanted some boobs and keep cross dressing. And now male clothes dont fit right, so I had to get all women's jeans and shorts to fit my butt, legs, curves in hip etc. If i wear a 36 man pants it will fit but waist is a joke way to large, and I need a 30" in male pants but I can get them over my thighs and butt. So I am at present 38 top, 28 upper waist and hips 39. When I started I was 42, 33, 37 ish male looking. So I just wear loose shirts or tops and women's camis that are not to fem for me in public when presenting male and with a little built in support or compression, tanks and layers when not to hot  to hide the boobs. Cant hide the butt and leg shape unless I go up to a large pant size and wear a belt and cover with a long shirt. But lately I care less about the stares. Seems like guys stare more than women. Women seems to be OK with male boobs well to a point... Wearing a bra maybe not so much Which sucks because a B cup in IMOP needs support.

Sorry to dump so much detail, I did not think I would be this long winded and I did leave out a LOT, but this has been building for a long long time.. Sorry I am shy about posting pics. Maybe at some point I can get there.

Emotions well that is another book right

So Happy, with your great success, why no pharma?  You are loading up with plant-based "E" with your PM.  Seems even low dose pharma "E" would help you better long term.  Help build the inner structure for getting the breast you want.  I only wanted minor breast development and concentrated on nipple growth.  I have done low dose progynova and patch E on a week and off the next for many months.   I like the inner tissue development in my breast tissue and nipple budding that came with the pharma grade E.  Even though I did grow more breast tissue than I planned for the tissue is very sensitive and my nipples even more sensitive.  Just saying, pharma is not a bad thing in all cases.

Cat

[Troublewithnibbles]

OK, so I wrote this on the pc 4 days before I posted the thread. Anyway so here we are about a week later from what I 1st said, and I guess not just the fat transitional movements, but the huge amount of muscle loss. IS it normal at some point that the muscle loss can be that drastic in like 2 months and a week? Even my under bust is 1" smaller and it looks way smaller under the rib cage, no side shoulders left at all, yep overall stregth too is already I would say 30% less even compared to 3 month ago,  and the real kicker is that:

I can even take my ring finger and thumb and wrap around my wrist till they touch. 2 Months ago I could not have even reached with the middle finger and thumb. So when I read about height, that is the one that shocks me too. So far still the same, feet and hands seem about the same but thinner and way better skin

I am extremely curious to hear an update to this cautionary tale.

[myboobs]

OK, so I wrote this on the pc 4 days before I posted the thread. Anyway so here we are about a week later from what I 1st said, and I guess not just the fat transitional movements, but the huge amount of muscle loss. IS it normal at some point that the muscle loss can be that drastic in like 2 months and a week? Even my under bust is 1" smaller and it looks way smaller under the rib cage, no side shoulders left at all, yep overall stregth too is already I would say 30% less even compared to 3 month ago,  and the real kicker is that:

I can even take my ring finger and thumb and wrap around my wrist till they touch. 2 Months ago I could not have even reached with the middle finger and thumb. So when I read about height, that is the one that shocks me too. So far still the same, feet and hands seem about the same but thinner and way better skin

I am extremely curious to hear an update to this cautionary tale.

Never read of anyone changing so fast !