[Jimmyzoomzoom]

I know that from PM or BO you eventually get that infamous aching of the balls/testicle.  What I’m curious about is what exactly is going on there?  What reactions are going on in there to cause the aching in the first place?
Inquiring minds want to know.

[Niaja]

I'm no expert but I believe the estrogen in PM and BO shut down the testosterone  production in the testicles and they begin to loose function and start to shrink giving you pain. Had the pain after about a month or so on PM and SP.Check Lotus's post she is the expert

[Shirazmn]

First of all, there is a similar thread going on here: https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=31556
It makes sense to keep an eye on both.

If you search online, the issue of testicular pain is common but it has never really been studied. The pain is a dull ache, like the aftermath of being kicked in the balls, but not immediately after the kick. Also it could feel similar to when someone holds your balls and squeezes a bit too much: no jolt of pain but a serious discomfort.
The pain seems to go away after a few weeks, and can occasionally come back if you stop and restart taking estrogens. After the pain goes away it's not uncomoon to notice that the testicles are smaller than they were, and they never go back to full size again. They won't lose their function, sperm quality seems to be just as good as before in early stages of NBE or HRT, and sex drive is back to normal when stopping the estrogens.

It's an interesting phenomenon and it's a clear indicator that the estrogens are working.

[Lotus]

First of all, there's bound to be similar threads. Tons of threads asking the same question,  “Hey, has anyone tried this method… or, “I looked around here and didn't see the information I wanted, therefore it doesn't exist”. Which is ridiculous because 9 times out of 10 the information has been posted and discussed here. Ultimately, one has to put forth more effort into looking for it. Simply put, read till your eyes bleed. As TibetanPrincess would put it. 

Secondly, why we experience testicular pain is simple, and it's called “ negative feedback”. The testes (and penis) have estrogen receptors, so, when testosterone is being instructed to produce less testosterone in genital tissue (testes & penis) via the hypothalamus axis/LH (Luteinizing Hormone) we experience the “negative feedback loop” from using phytoestrogens or estradiol… and using anti-androgens. Women experience negative feedback throughout their menstrual cycle, PCOS comes to mind. Even in hyperandrogenism we experience negative feedback… amongst other examples too. 

Endocrinology of the Male Reproductive System and Spermatogenesis

CLINICAL SUMMARY

The testes synthesize two essential products: testosterone, needed for the development and maintenance of many physiological functions including normal testis function; and sperm, needed for male fertility. The synthesis of both products is regulated by endocrine hormones produced in the hypothalamus and pituitary, as well as locally within the testis.

What it means is that testosterone production of testosterone is turned down, that's when the hypothalamus recognizes the loss of testosterone production and produces more testosterone (which is termed supraphysiological reaction of said negative feedback). The feeling might last for 3-4 weeks once hemostasis is established (a return of receptor set points). You'll experience a reduction of penis/scrotum size because the testosterone/estrogen ratio is altered. 

The secretion of hypothalamic gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) stimulates production of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) by the pituitary. LH is transported in the bloodstream to the testes, where it stimulates Leydig cells to produce testosterone: this can act as an androgen (via interaction with androgen receptors) but can also be aromatized to produce estrogens. The testes, in turn, feedback on the hypothalamus and the pituitary via testosterone and inhibin secretion, in a negative feedback loop to limit GnRH and gonadotropin production. Both androgens and FSH act on receptors within the supporting somatic cells, the Sertoli cells, to stimulate various functions needed for optimal sperm production. Spermatogenesis is the process by which immature male germ cells divide, undergo meiosis and differentiate into highly specialized haploid spermatozoa. Optimal spermatogenesis requires the action of both testosterone (via androgen receptors) and FSH.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK279031/

I must've posted this information at least a dozen times over the 10+ years I've been at Breastnexum. 

The science of negative feedback has been studied for years. I don't subscribe to the notion of "it's never been studied”… with all due respect, I find the information. 

[Shirazmn]

@Lotus thanks for the explanation. I have no idea why you got angry. My "first of all" was literally to say that people reading this thread may want to read the other one too because other users could reply to one and not the other. Actually I think that there are 3 active threads discussing the same thing right now.

Regarding the scientific explanation (thank you for that) , I confess that I am ignorant enough to not know that the term "negative feedback" even existed. Let alone that it was linked to HRT or testicular pain. I, like I would imagine other people, searched on Google for "Testicular pain on HRT" and couldn't find anything. Even using this forum's search function, if you use the title of this post as the serach key, the search results would not answering the question "what exactly is going on there" asked by Jimmy.
We, the non experts, may struggle to find the answers if the right question requires much knowledge to start with.

[Lotus]

Not mad, I should've added a smiley emoji to denote my sarcasm on the "First of all" statement, like these two. Tbh, what irks me is when someone posts incorrect scientific knowledge, and offers ill-advised advice to new people. An example would be when someone states “ there's only a limited amount of estrogen receptors”. That's widely incorrect, there's somewhere (in the magnitude) over several hundred thousand… per cell. I know people want ti help, which is admirable. However, information being conveyed must be based on scientific fact, with corresponding science literature and less anecdotal. Btw, the information given on BO that after 6 months results are permanent, that's factually incorrect. Think about it, using E2 (estradiol) can't even make that claim. It's like saying BO is stronger than HRT, lol no way. Imho, it's seems more like a marketing tactic used to sell the product. There's no scientific data on such a claim. E2 (by in large) scientific literature is vast.

I've been meaning to ask Eve if we could improve the functionality of search terms. I know (first hand knowledge) if I want to specifically look up information covering DHT (as an example) I'll have to enter “dihydrotestosterone”), which only displays “dihydrotestosterone” used in a post and not DHT. 

Incidentally, why some folks may feel extra horny is from the initial spike in T (testosterone) from that negative feedback loop when first starting NBE/HRT. The scientific term for this is called “ getting a supraphysiological dose of T”. Those interactions should subside... unless you're a mutant  and always feel that way after starting NBE/HRT therapy. Penis atrophy exists (as a result of loss of androgens in said tissues).

My remedy is applying DHEA cream to the penis. Aside from applying DHEA to breasts (which restores lost breast volume) it works wonders down under.  As someone who's had an orchidectomy I only make T from my adrenals, which doesn't quite make up the loss of sex drive. In my experience DHEA restored my sex drive (and then some, meaning I can have multiple orgasms, nipple ones too). There's so much more information covering this topic I can't fit into one post. I need to reply to Lady Charlotte's thread on estogel to clear up some misconceptions about the gel. There is scientific information covering the application of estogel. I apologize for my absence, I've been battling other things. 

[LexiCD]

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Oh thank you for this! I was unaware of DHEA cream. I will look into this and am following along this interesting convo.