[Blues56]

After some time searching on this site, I have this plan to start my NBE journey

• Nature's Bounty Fenugreek (610mg)
  
• Barlowe Pueraria Mirifica (550mg)
  
• Pure Original Ingredients GABA (850mg)
  
• Pure Original Ingredients White Peony (515mg)
  

I'm thinking doing once a day on a 4 days on/ 3 days off cycle as well as planning for a breast pump in the future. I think this is a good start of a plan but I would also like some advice on changes/improvements. Thank You

[Karen Hart]

I'm so curious where you got the recommendation to combine Fenugreek with PM. 
Everything that I have read, has said to use one or the other, and not to combine them.
Do you by any chance have a link for that? I would love to see it.

Progesterone cream (Wild Yam) is an essential to your core regimen.
A core regimen should have an "estrogen", "progesterone" and " anti-androgen".
People choose different ways to incorporate it. 
It can be used daily, or cycled on/off. 20mg is a common dose.
When cycled, it is usually used daily for one or two weeks of the month, and off for the remainder of the month.

I am also wondering why you are choosing to cycle your "estrogen" 4-on, 3-off.
I would recommend daily, or at least daily for 2 to 3 weeks per month.
On the "off" week or weeks, switch to Progesterone.

Example schedules

Week 1 Estrogen
Week 2 Estrogen
Week 3 Progesterone
Week 4 Progesterone

A slightly more sophisticated cycle

Week 1 Estrogen
Week 2 Estrogen
Week 3 Estrogen + Progesterone
Week 4 Progesterone

I really do not know if these cycles yield better results than simply using Estrogen and Progesterone both, daily!
But, cycling does save on cost.

[Karen Hart]

In regard to my post above where I was questioning your idea of cycling on a 4-on, 3-off schedule.
That may actually be excellent, in the beginning, to start the budding process. Just a guess. Why?

Here is a link to a discussion on mimicking the menstrual cycle, where I posted a graph of the female cycle.
The puberty cycle shows short, extreme swings (of an unknown length of time) going from peak to zero, over and over. 
Do these swings go on for a number of days, or weeks? I don't know
It is difficult to interpret these but one thing is clear, both Estrogen and Progesterone are cycling together. 

https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=31585&pid=229572#pid229572

[Blues56]

[unnecessary quoting removed]













Hello Karen, 

Thanks for the warning. I assumed using FG was fine since it also aids in breast development through prolactin. As for the 4 day on/ 3 day off, I wanted to be gentle in my approach since I wanted to maintain my male function during this regimen. Should I do low doses, go cold turkey on occasion or something else?

[Karen Hart]

My understanding is that PM should not be combined with any other phyto.
It would be okay to combine any other phytos though, for example, FG with Fennel, FG with Red Clover or all three together, just not with PM.

In regard to maintaining male function, I have no experience. 
There is a sub-forum "Males Staying Male" that should have some advice.
I know that many people just take the "regular" dose until they experience side-effects (lack of erectile ability), then take a break until they recover.
Taking consistent low doses or skipping too many days will likely not get much breast growth, I'm guessing.
But honestly, it is all about experimenting on yourself and figuring out what works for you.

I'm sure others will chime in and give you some more (and hopefully better) ideas.

Karen

[Blues56]

After checking out some more posts, I think this version of my plan should be fine.

• Barlowe Pueraria Mirifica (550mg)
  
  
• Pure Original Ingredients GABA (850mg)
  
  
• Pure Original Ingredients White Peony (515mg)
  
  
• NOW Progesterone Balancing Skin Cream 20mg/pump (3oz/85g)
  

Starting with PM, WP, and Gaba one pill each in the morning before increasing dosage in one months time. However, after reading this post from Lotus, does anyone know if I should start cycling progesterone cream when I start the third week or do I continue with PM, WP and Gaba until I start to develop breast buds then start to cycle.

Another thing is whether I should continue using WP and Gaba when I do switch to progesterone cream or should it be cream by itself.

Thank You

P.S. I have read Lotus' post and will switch to the one they recommend if NOW cream causes me any problems down the line.

Lotus


Hi and welcome, 

I'll give you an explanation of how progesterone works for NBE... which in addition applies to HRT too. But, I'd add an anti-androgen and drop down the PM between 1,000 mg to 1,500mg. Or follow the program I attached below. 

Firstly, ignore the advice “it doesn't matter when to apply progesterone cream”... this is completely untrue. At the start of puberty (in girls) estradiol is released which starts the formation of Breast Buds, scientifically known as T.E.Bs (terminal end buds) under the nipples and areolas. By applying or using progesterone too early interferes with that normal breast bud formation (the alveolar morphogenesis) because progesterone lowers the estradiol production thus causing an incomplete growth of breasts. 

Waiting till you've developed breast buds then adding progesterone is the best way to develop your breast. Progesterone is released after a girl's first menarche (menstrual cycle, aka period).

Using the right kind of progesterone matters, the cheap stuff (the Now brand progesterone cream) has ingredients (seed oils) that causes inflammation and clogs pores, saw palmetto (which inhibit progesterone receptors). Cheaper isn't always better. 

Puberty initiates branching morphogenesis, which requires growth hormone and estrogen, as well as IGF1, to create a ductal structures.

As Dr. Powers (my doctor, but I see his PA) tells it, breast development needs more E1/E2 during the first stages of development, then adds progesterone by the 3rd year (unless he's updated his position). I used PC after I developed breast buds (which was at 6 months). E1 is estriol and E2 is estradiol. And his reasoning is because of the thousands of Trans patients he's treated (with blood tests) he determined E1/E2 is essential for the first stages of breast growth… There's scientific evidence that backs his hypothesis. 

I suggest this program below because it's helped many (thousands?). Each supplement has meaning and reason, take for MSM. It stimulates a certain pathway that stimulates breast growth. And this brand of progesterone cream below is probably the best brand to use (I have no affiliation with product, or any other product or device).
https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=24358&page=8

https://www.amazon.com/Smoky-Mountain-Naturals-LLC-Dermatologist-Tested/dp/B00EB0AQA4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=Smoky+mountain+progesterone&qid=1703910730&rdc=1&sr=8-1

Lastly, following the female hormonal cycle for breast growth is unproductive… why? Men (or AMAB "assigned male at birth”) don't have ovaries, so we don't cycle like cis-female do. If we do cycle it's to reset receptors and detox. Ideally one could follow a 5 day plan (5 days on 2 days off). 


I'll post research regarding the information I've collected and posted about the use of progesterone in another thread.

Happy New Year.