[CM213]

Hello everyone I wanted to get everyone's general opinion on what you do with your nbe program when you start HRT. 

I know some people have said that they've had to get off using pm since it could affect their estrogen levels in their blood work I've heard people continuing to use Bo while on their HRT programs. 

I may be starting or being prescribed HRT here within the next few months depending on how my mental health assessment goes with my new therapist at the VA. So I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on whether or not someone should stop their nbe routine before they see their Endo or if they should just continue on using it until they meet with their endo and see what their endo has to say?

Currently I'm just using Bo ( at 500mg per day), red reshi, MSM, and a calcium magnesium zink d3 multi vitamin. Also using some Volufiline fluid and cream for topical applications on lips and chest. I may add another topical that contains 5 mg estrogen (but haven't decided yet. May say it for down the road depending on what happens with the VA.)

I feel there may not need to be any reason to stop using b.o, however I can see the estrogen cream would most likely have to be stopped (if I start using it) since I'll be prescribed a stronger form of estrogen anyways.

Thanks everyone.

[OOO]

CM213

I also wanted to know about BO with HRT.  But here’s the problem.  My HRT DR. is watching my labs very close and I’m afraid of messing my labs up and getting my blood work out of wack.  As my wife and I can see the hormones are working even at my age.  DR. says that they are looking for that correct dose.  Plus she feels HRT by itself is better than mixing herbs in.  We are to the point of seeing her every 2 months and adjusting accordingly to labs. 

The HRT DR. is on my side and I will not take anything that might disrupt this journey.

Caylee

It’s slow and I have a hard time being patient. Wife says just enjoy the journey!

[Stevenator_]

Lotus is a big proponent of continuing to use MSM throughout a NBE/HRT program. You could check the last several/many pages of the Project-X thread that discusses the topical protocol. I think she covered additional supplements in there, too.

Lara should be a big help with this as well, as she's still using supplements in her NBE program.

With your exercise regimen you should be very successful with HRT, as Growth Hormone helps tremendously. Congratulations on the switch. You're gonna love it.

[CM213]

Well thanks stevenator, I hope it is as successful as it can be. I'm hopeful but don't have un realistic expectations either. I'm not there yet though. Hopefully by Oct I will have seen an endocrinologist and have a plan to move forward...

Yes I've been reading lotus' project x thread about hrt and nbe. 

And I know Lara has said she continues to use b.o with hrt amongst a few other things. 

I guess to be safe it might be good to cease nbe when starting HRT, until they find the right dose, and then once your on cruise control and where they see you every 3-6 months vs every 1-2. Starting nbe back up. 

But like you said stevenator there are things that can help hrt and breast growth and transition in general. 

I can see stopping p.m since that will directly affect the estrogen levels in your blood, but b.o? Not so sure about that one since it works differently than p.m.

And depending on the anti testosterone meds they give you one would no longer need red reshi or any of the other herbal  AA's we typically use with nbe.

Again Im feeling that if one is unsure or worried about throwing off labs then the safest thing is to prob stop any nbe which could potentially alter your estrogen levels. 

But I'd def like to hear more on this subject.

[Stevenator_]

I do know that Lotus has advised in the past to not use phytoestrogens when you're on HRT, because the phytoestrogens will clog your estrogen receptors, leaving the more potent HRT null and void.

I always refer people to the Project-X thread because that's where all the correct information is located. I do not want to anger her by misquoting the science she has provided us. Any tips and recommendations from me will always carry that disclaimer.

Thanks and Best of Luck to You

[Heaven's Night]

When I started out, I did a switch from PM + MSM + D3 etc., directly to HRT. I kept everything else going but changed PM for sublingual/buccal estrogen. Then two months down the road I switched from pills to injections, later added progesterone and T blocker and all this time I kept very simple NBE program on the side which I started to broaden when I was +6 months in.

I started bovine ovary just some weeks before hitting ten months on HRT and so on, then added amino acids, milk thistle and so on later and tested a bunch of things which didn't turn out so successful and this is what I've been doing since. Right now I'm doing things a bit more simple than last year and hoping to simplify even more.

So my idea would be to start HRT, keep supplements to minimum, MSM+D3+Calcium is totally fine though and so are things like multivitamin, GABA etc., which are there as a sideshow, for health reasons and so on. Then once your body starts to adapt, you can broaden into more extensive NBE program. I wouldn't rush because I think its a good idea especialyl about breast development to let your body do the initial stages without overdoing anything. I believe its crucial for getting your development not go wrong. Also it seems that NBE starts to work the best once you're in Tanner four development. So no rush, listen to your body and let it adapt and slowly add stuff you want to do on the side. That way you can also easily troubleshoot if you get side effects from something.

[CM213]

Lara,

Thank you. That's very informative based on your experiences and research. You're prob right, to let the DRs and get do their thing first and then once you're at a stable place in transition and using hrt , then add nbe I to the mix. 

I don't really consider MSM, calcium d3 etc nbe to an extent, more so just a good vitamin routine in general, just so happens to really help with nbe. 

So if I might start HRT sometime in September-november would you say it's prob a good idea to stop taking b.o until the endo finds the warm and fuzzy for where they want the hrt dose and delivery method? I know I would hate to stunt any growth from hrt by using pm or bo. 

So far I've been on a simple b.o routine for about a week.and a half. I'd like to finish it out to the end of aug and then if it's best I stop before seeing the Endo then I'd like to stop then. But then again might be best to stop now and allow my body to reset again for when I eventually will see the Endo.

I'd still continue to use MSM, calcium d3 zink etc multi vitamin routine either way, I'd just drop the Bo out of it.