22-06-2011, 12:26 PM
progesterone perscription vs. OTC
November 25 2007 at 8:39 PM wishfulthinking (Login wishfullthinking)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHARMACOKINETICS
>
> Over-the-Counter Progesterone Cream Produces Significant Drug
> Exposure Compared to a Food and Drug Administration–Approved Oral
> Progesterone Product
> Anne C. Hermann, MD, Anne N. Nafziger, MD, MHS, Jennifer Victory,
> BSN, Robert Kulawy, BS, Mario L. Rocci, Jr, PhD and Joseph S.
> Bertino, Jr, PharmD, FCP
> From the Department of Medicine (Dr Hermann, Dr Nafziger, Dr Bertino)
> and Clinical Pharmacology Research Center, Research Institute (Dr
> Nafziger, Ms Victory, Dr Bertino), Bassett Healthcare, Cooperstown,
> New York, and Prevalere Life Sciences, Inc, Whitesboro, New York (Mr
> Kulawy, Mr Rocci).
>
>
> Progesterone products are available in prescription form as well as
> over-the-counter (OTC) topical preparations sold for "cosmetic" uses.
> In a randomized study design, the authors compared the drug exposure
> from an OTC progesterone cream to a Food and Drug Administration–
> approved oral preparation at the labeled daily doses recommended for
> each product. Twelve healthy postmenopausal women received 200-mg
> oral progesterone capsules once daily for 12 days or progesterone
> cream 40 mg twice daily for 12 days. At steady state (day 12 of each
> phase), whole-blood samples were collected over 24 hours (oral
> progesterone) or 12 hours (topical progesterone) and assayed for
> total progesterone concentration. No significant differences were
> found in dose-normalized 24-hour progesterone exposure comparing the
> cream to oral capsules (median AUC0-24 12.5 ng·h/mL vs 10.5 ng·h/mL,
> respectively; P = .81). In light of the potential risks associated
> with long-term progesterone use, the authors question whether topical
> progesterone products should be available OTC.
Thought this might be interesting that you can get the same level with OTC and that some one might try to regulate it since you can
Author Reply
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Think it's more to do with body chemistry so not sure how it relates to the male body.... November 25 2007, 9:03 PM
You recently asked the NLH Q&A service regarding whether the combined oral contraceptive Dianette (containing 2 mg of the progesterone cyproterone) is more progestogenic than Microgynon (containing 0.15 mg of levonogestrel) and which would be more suitable for women with low circulating progesterone. I am responding to your question as it was referred to London medicines information.
Cyproterone is a progesterone but also has anti-androgenic properties and is therefore preferred for women with acne, oily skin, or hirsutism. Levonorgestrel is also a progesterone but without apparent anti-androgenic activity. As such, whilst both cyproterone and levonorgestrel are potent progesterones a direct comparison in terms of equivalent doses is not available. It is also worth considering that interindividual pharmacokinetic and physiological variation may occur, resulting in 10 fold differences in circulating progesterone in women taking the same formulation of the same pill and sampled at the same time. Such variation is further compounded by differences in target organ sensitivity. Taking this into account it seems suggesting a specific suitable progesterone for a women with low circulating progesterone could only be achieved on an individual basis and may require specialist input.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems like it's just luck of the draw what your body actually does with this stuff
(I have posted this info somewhere here before but a lot of the threads are well-labelled)
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 9:30 AM
Well I'm taking the Ginette 35 which is generic Dianette (sp?) and it seems to be working well for me. I researched this and decided to use this because of the anti-androgenic effects.
In addition to the Ginette I'm boosting it (EE levels) with high doses of vitamin C plus taking large doses of Saw Palmetto and Porcine Ovary.
All in all, I'm pleased with the results, it's working well in my case.
I'm having significant growth and overall feminization is progressing well.
There may be better ways to do this but this way is working for me and it's affordable.
The other ways are not affordable. This works and it's cheap.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 11:55 AM
Hi Dee, I'm taking Dianette which is the same thing and just wondered if it played your skin up at all or gave you any aches in pains in the abdomen / lower back?
I think I was happier on my previous contraceptive but the gynaecologist has given my another 6 months of this before I try something else (think it has killed the chest hair, though admittedly it was never that bad!) I've had all these symptoms before with the polycystic ovaries and it is better than with nothing but the weaker pill seemed to totally fix everything. Any ideas why?
Morticia aka Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 8:39 PM
Hey there Louise,
Well I'm not quite sure if I understand what "just wondered if it played your skin up at all" would mean. ???
As for any other problems, I can't say I've had any problems from it other than *swelling of the breasts and breast tenderness" :-D
Also today I started getting those sharp needle pain in my boobs too, like someone smashed a cactus into my tits.
There's a lot of activity going on in there lately. I have reached the point that it's not possible for me to wear a simple tshirt in public and no one notice them. Six months ago, eh, you might notice them if you were intentionally looking at my chest. Now, there they are. So if I want to hide em I have to work a little harder at it. And as you would guess, none of the above is a complaint.. November has been a very progressive month in my overall development and growth.
I can't say anything as to back pain because I have $100,000 worth of titanium bolted into my spine so I live with severe back pain 24/7..
I've been taking Ginette about 4 months now and I see no reason not to continue taking it.
Of course you may have different results as we are all different.
Louise
(no login) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 9:59 PM
Sorry I meant as in acne, I'm really cockney, must sound weird if you're in the US. I only have a few spots, had quite a lot when not on any pill but had none with microgynon. Forgot about the back, that must really get you down, did that tazer thing help it at all?
Morticia aka Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 27 2007, 1:45 AM
Heh! No problem mate.
Actually I'm used to the accent, I have a number of friends across the pond, plus I watch a lot of BBC on satellite and my daughter amd grandson lived there a few years. Some of the lingo throws me off sometimes as I've not heard it all yet.
Hmmm... Acne. Well maybe it has a little. I used to have a lot of problem with the skin on my nose being oily and getting whireheads a lot. Actually it was pretty darn bad. So I would have to say that yes, my skin has improved but I can't say for certain that it was strictly the Ginette or something else or a combo. I have no way to know that... I have heard over and over that HRT will dry your skin out and clear it up too. Well my skin is dry like a sponge. I have to rub down with skin lotion several times a day or I start burning and itching, especially my arms and hands. It's very annoying.
Heh, the TENS unit (for zapping pain in my back) doesn't help any with my back so I use it on my boobs now.
It massages them, you can see them tighten up and relax as it shocks me, it's like a workout without the work.
November 25 2007 at 8:39 PM wishfulthinking (Login wishfullthinking)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHARMACOKINETICS
>
> Over-the-Counter Progesterone Cream Produces Significant Drug
> Exposure Compared to a Food and Drug Administration–Approved Oral
> Progesterone Product
> Anne C. Hermann, MD, Anne N. Nafziger, MD, MHS, Jennifer Victory,
> BSN, Robert Kulawy, BS, Mario L. Rocci, Jr, PhD and Joseph S.
> Bertino, Jr, PharmD, FCP
> From the Department of Medicine (Dr Hermann, Dr Nafziger, Dr Bertino)
> and Clinical Pharmacology Research Center, Research Institute (Dr
> Nafziger, Ms Victory, Dr Bertino), Bassett Healthcare, Cooperstown,
> New York, and Prevalere Life Sciences, Inc, Whitesboro, New York (Mr
> Kulawy, Mr Rocci).
>
>
> Progesterone products are available in prescription form as well as
> over-the-counter (OTC) topical preparations sold for "cosmetic" uses.
> In a randomized study design, the authors compared the drug exposure
> from an OTC progesterone cream to a Food and Drug Administration–
> approved oral preparation at the labeled daily doses recommended for
> each product. Twelve healthy postmenopausal women received 200-mg
> oral progesterone capsules once daily for 12 days or progesterone
> cream 40 mg twice daily for 12 days. At steady state (day 12 of each
> phase), whole-blood samples were collected over 24 hours (oral
> progesterone) or 12 hours (topical progesterone) and assayed for
> total progesterone concentration. No significant differences were
> found in dose-normalized 24-hour progesterone exposure comparing the
> cream to oral capsules (median AUC0-24 12.5 ng·h/mL vs 10.5 ng·h/mL,
> respectively; P = .81). In light of the potential risks associated
> with long-term progesterone use, the authors question whether topical
> progesterone products should be available OTC.
Thought this might be interesting that you can get the same level with OTC and that some one might try to regulate it since you can
Author Reply
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Think it's more to do with body chemistry so not sure how it relates to the male body.... November 25 2007, 9:03 PM
You recently asked the NLH Q&A service regarding whether the combined oral contraceptive Dianette (containing 2 mg of the progesterone cyproterone) is more progestogenic than Microgynon (containing 0.15 mg of levonogestrel) and which would be more suitable for women with low circulating progesterone. I am responding to your question as it was referred to London medicines information.
Cyproterone is a progesterone but also has anti-androgenic properties and is therefore preferred for women with acne, oily skin, or hirsutism. Levonorgestrel is also a progesterone but without apparent anti-androgenic activity. As such, whilst both cyproterone and levonorgestrel are potent progesterones a direct comparison in terms of equivalent doses is not available. It is also worth considering that interindividual pharmacokinetic and physiological variation may occur, resulting in 10 fold differences in circulating progesterone in women taking the same formulation of the same pill and sampled at the same time. Such variation is further compounded by differences in target organ sensitivity. Taking this into account it seems suggesting a specific suitable progesterone for a women with low circulating progesterone could only be achieved on an individual basis and may require specialist input.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems like it's just luck of the draw what your body actually does with this stuff
(I have posted this info somewhere here before but a lot of the threads are well-labelled)
Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 9:30 AM
Well I'm taking the Ginette 35 which is generic Dianette (sp?) and it seems to be working well for me. I researched this and decided to use this because of the anti-androgenic effects.
In addition to the Ginette I'm boosting it (EE levels) with high doses of vitamin C plus taking large doses of Saw Palmetto and Porcine Ovary.
All in all, I'm pleased with the results, it's working well in my case.
I'm having significant growth and overall feminization is progressing well.
There may be better ways to do this but this way is working for me and it's affordable.
The other ways are not affordable. This works and it's cheap.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 11:55 AM
Hi Dee, I'm taking Dianette which is the same thing and just wondered if it played your skin up at all or gave you any aches in pains in the abdomen / lower back?
I think I was happier on my previous contraceptive but the gynaecologist has given my another 6 months of this before I try something else (think it has killed the chest hair, though admittedly it was never that bad!) I've had all these symptoms before with the polycystic ovaries and it is better than with nothing but the weaker pill seemed to totally fix everything. Any ideas why?
Morticia aka Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 8:39 PM
Hey there Louise,
Well I'm not quite sure if I understand what "just wondered if it played your skin up at all" would mean. ???
As for any other problems, I can't say I've had any problems from it other than *swelling of the breasts and breast tenderness" :-D
Also today I started getting those sharp needle pain in my boobs too, like someone smashed a cactus into my tits.
There's a lot of activity going on in there lately. I have reached the point that it's not possible for me to wear a simple tshirt in public and no one notice them. Six months ago, eh, you might notice them if you were intentionally looking at my chest. Now, there they are. So if I want to hide em I have to work a little harder at it. And as you would guess, none of the above is a complaint.. November has been a very progressive month in my overall development and growth.
I can't say anything as to back pain because I have $100,000 worth of titanium bolted into my spine so I live with severe back pain 24/7..
I've been taking Ginette about 4 months now and I see no reason not to continue taking it.
Of course you may have different results as we are all different.
Louise
(no login) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 26 2007, 9:59 PM
Sorry I meant as in acne, I'm really cockney, must sound weird if you're in the US. I only have a few spots, had quite a lot when not on any pill but had none with microgynon. Forgot about the back, that must really get you down, did that tazer thing help it at all?
Morticia aka Dee
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone perscription vs. OTC November 27 2007, 1:45 AM
Heh! No problem mate.
Actually I'm used to the accent, I have a number of friends across the pond, plus I watch a lot of BBC on satellite and my daughter amd grandson lived there a few years. Some of the lingo throws me off sometimes as I've not heard it all yet.
Hmmm... Acne. Well maybe it has a little. I used to have a lot of problem with the skin on my nose being oily and getting whireheads a lot. Actually it was pretty darn bad. So I would have to say that yes, my skin has improved but I can't say for certain that it was strictly the Ginette or something else or a combo. I have no way to know that... I have heard over and over that HRT will dry your skin out and clear it up too. Well my skin is dry like a sponge. I have to rub down with skin lotion several times a day or I start burning and itching, especially my arms and hands. It's very annoying.
Heh, the TENS unit (for zapping pain in my back) doesn't help any with my back so I use it on my boobs now.
It massages them, you can see them tighten up and relax as it shocks me, it's like a workout without the work.