02-08-2011, 12:42 PM
What will it feel like?
March 20 2007 at 4:34 AM anon man (no login)
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Before we even consider an endeavor like growing breasts, can TB or anyone else give us a good idea what this is all about? I mean, this is a goal which is irreversible. I wouldn't do the operation to go back to normal... if would just chalk it up as a bad experience. But if a woman would like to give a day to day account, please do. You live this everyday and know the feelings for many years. Whether an A or larger, you get the looks, have to be careful how you run or exercise. You even have to deal with finding bras that fit. It's not like purchasing a shirt. Maybe you should be talking us out of this!
But I think I may have very mild gynecomastia. I say very mild, because if I walk fast or ride on a bumpy road, I feel the 'bounce' a little. This maybe because my chest isn't toned and shaped as it was in my youth. But if I decide to go ahead with Fenugreek, SP and maybe Fennel, then most certainly I will feel a lot more bounce. And I am guessing there will be a little projection in my chest area which will probably be noticeable to others. Personally, I wouldn't care about the projection or the bounce if this was more accepted. But if we decide to go NBE and have an annoying bounce that may cause pain, then we may be forced to use a bra whether we like it or not. If you get to AA or A, is a bra necessary to eliminate any chest pain? Is going braless with AA or A in a T-shirt or polo shirt very obvious? Would it be noticeable? And for someone to go to the C and beyond, I would guess a bra is mandatory.
And there is no way to hide a bra. The front is more hidden than the back. However the back has the hook in the band as well as the strap adjustments that are so easy to spot. And there is the symmetry of the straps which draw your focus immediately. And the sides are noticeable too. Will other woman look at me strange? In public situations like a restraunt, it will be quite obvious. I suppose at that point, you can say it is medically necessary. But the bottom line is if you 'grow', then you have to deal with it every day.
Also if a male has these feelings, is it because of some imbalance in us? For example do we have less testosterone than other males? Do we think we want this for the right reasons or are we being manipulated by OUR hormones? Or is it a feeling of harmless submission? The problem is that whatever we feel, it is quite real. And its just as real as a women who wants NBE. Obviously if you leave the house and go out into the unforgiving world in your Hanes, Playtex, or Champion, then the feeling has to be quite strong. I try never to fault anyone based on their emotions and feelings. We are who we are. We only live once. But if we go ahead with NBE, it will be obvious every day, no matter what we wear.
On the other hand the new erogenous zones may be the allure. I still cannot believe I am researching this. I wonder what my doctor will say? What friends will say? But the desire is so strong and deep within us and that explains why we are all here.
The only other question is, with all the information out there, it sure sounds like an impossible task to accomplish. No one seems to know the correct starting doses and herbs to try. It just makes it more complicated. But at this point I want to say I am still researching, and actually intrigued by all the discussions that have occurred on all the sites. Everyone has the desire.
But any advice, will always be appreciated.
Author Reply
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 20 2007, 7:28 AM
Hi there! And welcome to the discussion forum.
No, you don't need a bra for AA or even A cup size breasts. I have lived most of my life without a bra. I wear one when I want to look nice. I can't stand bras, they are uncomfortable. And I'm a girl.
So if you stay a smaller size you wouldn't have to wear one.
Perhaps TB can give you some insight in what it is like to be a man with breasts. You can always blame hormonal imbalance if someone would ask, I suppose. But you wouldn't have to go THAT big. You could get away with an AA or an A just wearing loose shirts and no one would know. And if you buy a bra, you could be buying it for your wife. :-)
Good luck whatever you decide.
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TB
(no login) Uhh March 20 2007, 12:56 PM
I think , if I read your post correctly, I in your situation would not pursue it The desire is not caused by a low level of testosterone. In my case it was a hormonal imbalance caused by a brain injury. I believe you are enjoying an intellectual pursuit which is fine, more people should, it would prevent them from doing something irreversible. If your single it could really affect you future relationships. I had them but figured I would make them look nice because pictures of older guys with "pancakes" on their chest looked worse to me. I am happily married. My life is already set. I am a 40D (42D) depending on the bra manufacturer. I only use a bra if they feel particularly heavy , maybe 3 days a week on average, but they are really noticeable. In my life because of who I am and the people who know me no one would ever "tease" me. I don't want to go into it too much but I am a person with many friends but also have a reputation of not being someone to "mess" with. I don't really care too much what anyone else thinks about my physical appearance so if that is important to you, don't do it. If you think your testosterone is low, get it checked out as if it is you will get Osteoporosis. I would recommend getting yourself chcked out before doing any of this to make sure there is nothing hiding "in the wings" that nay be causing the changes you are feeling. If you test out O.K. then you may want to consider moving forward with it. As for me it is something that happened to me unintentionally but I decided to enhance what was there. My breasts are part of me and I would never consider their removal. I do enjoy them and it is a sexual turn on to me. If I were younger, single, pursuing a women I would be worried though. If you are gay/bi, it might not be as great as an issue.
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Anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 21 2007, 12:04 AM
Thank you TB and Fennel! I definitely have been thinking about this for quite a while. I would love the feeling that both of you are now experiencing daily. I really want to know more about it. My spouse is not much help and its hard to be this open. I am straight and married for 15 years, but I have had this desire for a while, and the stirrings of it may even go back to puberty. I don't know what its like to have a heaviness in the chest. Please, what does this feel like?? I have no concept, but it sounds wonderful. Other than this I do feel normal, I only wish that this could happen. And if it did, I would think this is normal for me. I do tend to think things out a lot. But if Fennel is right, then an A or AA probably won't bother me to the point where I would be conscious of my body. And with no telltale hint of a bra peeking through then I can decide when and where I want to wear one.
But what is also 'blowing my circuitry' is all the confusion of the herbs, massaging and PM bar soap on these sites. You read it and may be convinced about an herb, then someone says something negative and you feel back to square one. It is really hard to figure out where to begin. I would be also be too embarrassed to ask my doctor too. However I do take sufficient vitamins, including calcium to prevent osteoperosis. My diet is very balanced... I guess unlike me :-) But I definitely am interested in learning more.
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TB
(no login) Osteoporosis March 21 2007, 2:41 AM
If you do not have sufficient testosterone in you system your body cannot absorb the calcium you take. It does not matter how much calcium you take, without testosterone your body will rob it from you bones (usually pelvis first). If you wife is O.K. with it I would recommend doing what I have beenp. Walmart sells a progesterone cream that is very effective in allowing what estrogen and phyto-estrogens you may take go to the right place. Milk thistle (cleans out your liver too) Dong Quai, Fenugreek, and Soy Isoflavones are what really worked for me (with the progesterone cream). I took two tablets each for a couple of months and massaged twice daily with the progesterone cream. Everyone is different but for me, being male, this is what worked. I was already a small C cup but now am a D cup and still filling out more.
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anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 22 2007, 3:58 AM
HI TB,
I'm still trying to digest all the information in my spare time. From reading all of your posts it sounds well thought out and researched quite well. However, I do have a question about the regimen you posted.
Everyones biggest fear is triggering off breast cancer. But in the post, are Progesterone cream, Fennugreek, Dong Quai, and Soy Isoflavins safe to take so that no cancer would develop? I heard of hormone-sensitive or hormone-receptor-positive cancers that can take root. But if I read all your information correctly, are all of these items are estrogen free?
I promise I will read a lot more over the coming weekend!
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TB
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 22 2007, 5:26 AM
The key is Phyto-estrogens. They take up the receptors and mimick the actions of estrogen. Progesterone cream helps the phyto-estrogens do what they should. Some men use progesterone cream rubbed between the rectum and testicles to prevent swelling of the prostate gland. I would never take any straight estrogen as what is available comes from horses anyway. As I said before an excess os testosterone would be turned into estrogen, which is naturally present in men also, so the progesterone cream rubbed on you breast area would help direct that also. Some people say progesterone cream alone will cause breast enhancement. I personally don't know why more women don't use it. The information on it is easily available and I noticed the most size increased when I added the daily masages with the progesterone cream to my regimen. It is available at Walmart and is marked "Progesterone Cream". It has a very mild pleasant scent. I also noticed that Milk Thistle made my abdominal area (liver) more comfortable and got rid of some acid build up I had in my stomach.
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Anonymous
(Login marsred) Re: What will it feel like? March 24 2007, 2:51 AM
go for it
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 24 2007, 10:28 AM
As you can see, you've got a little support group here already. So any questions you may have, or stuff you want to vent, just post it. We'll give you an honest answer or at least some feedback if you like.
If you're going for AA, or A cups, there is no reason to worry about what other people might think because they would only notice if you emphasised them with a bra. And I don't think your wife would mind. In fact, She doesn't even have to be told that you are actively trying to grow breasts. It is YOUR body. If she loves you, it's no biggie.
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 1:30 AM
Maybe my experience can be helpful to you. I had virtually no breast tissue before NBE. My inch of growth occured from progesterone cream. I agree with TB in that I think more women could gain from using natural progesterone cream, but it seems that many are more intimidated by it than by phytoestrogens.
I can tell you that going from extremely flat chested to what I have now has been phenomenal. I don't yet have as much as most women who begin NBE. I am just now creeping into the aaa - aa size (depending on bra strap size). Even if you have only a modest gain, you will feel the difference. It is not so much a heavy feel, as it is a 'something is in the way' feel. When I bring my knees toward my chest, my boob gets squished between my pec muscle and my leg. When I lay on my side I have a roll of boob I have to find a place for. When I am on my stomach my breasts feel uncomfortable. Sometimes the inside of my arm brushes up against 'boobage'. None of these things ever happened to me before. I still don't 'have' to wear a bra but I finally can see some bulging in the top of my padded push up (okay, truthfully, I have to actually lean forward and pull them into place to see it... and the effect is somewhat short-lived, but if you look really quick...)
I saw a guy ahead of me in the check out line at the sporting goods store today. He was buying a gun, so I know he was 'manly'. His shirt moved slightly and I saw he had WAY more cleavage than me (yes I stared, but in that side of the eye, nobody can tell sort of way) - I think that most people would think a guy with an enlarged chest (aa - A) was just sporting some manly pecs. You don't need to think about a bra - they really aren't necessary even for large breasted women (they are however very necessary for small breasted women like me who without their bra appear to have nothing at all)
hope this has been some help,
waxingmoon
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 7:29 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience waxingmoon, I too would like to try progesterone cream but unfortunately you can't buy it "over the counter" where I live. I'd need a doctors prescription so that's unthinkable. I've been thinking of bovine ovary too but am not sure if it is legal to import it here. I'm doing ok with the single herbs though, but it is a slow process.
And waxingmoon is right, men with a little boobage are often seen as if they are either muscular or slightly overweight depending on body type.
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Anonymous
(no login) To Fennel fairy March 26 2007, 2:43 PM
We need a prescription for progesterone cream here in Canada too. But I believe we can import a 3 month supply for personal use only. bovine ovary is not sold here either but we can order for personal use. You should look into that and see if you can do it in your country. Good Luck
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twinklepose
(Login twinklepose)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 10:21 PM
Great posts, guys.
As for P cream, I just got mine on eBay. It is called Wild Yam Cream and only cost about £10.
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anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 27 2007, 3:20 AM
That was funny about seeing the guy in line and casting a glance at his little boobage! That was so funny! I am guilty of doing that myself when I see a little cleavage from a woman. But like you it is admiring it with absolute envy. Size doesn't matter... it's all envy.
I am still on the fence about what I want to do for myself. I thought about P cream, as well as SP, Fenugreek and maybe milk thistle. But unfortunately there is so little information out there, especially for men. It's scary. I don't know what long term use of P-creme can do to a man. There is not enough information. Then you hear about all the talk of breast cancer and now with John Edwards wife putting the disease in the forefront. I know I want safety, but is that a possibility, especially when none of the research applies to men. But maybe very low dosages of SP, Fenugreek, and Milk thistle done over a period of a year may not be bad??
What dosages of SP are these weight lifters using ??
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Anonymous
(no login) Anon Man March 27 2007, 5:24 PM
You can learn alot by reading TS sites. They are basicly the only ones that have had some kind of research done on them. Although they are taking larger doses of the real hard stuff most of them do just fine.You can also find some good info about herbs and vitamins that you should be taking and the general doses on TS sites. The herbs are much weaker than the hard stuff therefore larger doses need to be taken. The amounts you take are up to you, meaning you start low and work your way up until you find that particular amount that is working for you and sometimes take a break for a few days to let your body have a rest. There no real rules of thumb about this.Basicly you will be experimenting on your self just like most of us do until we find what works for us. Then get on the forum and tell the others this & this is working for me! If you live a reasonable healthy life style you should do just fine. Hope this is of help.
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twinklepose
(Login twinklepose)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 27 2007, 10:04 PM
Why are some women concerned about progesterone cream? Is there a breast cancer risk?
Twink x
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Anonymous
(no login) To Twinkle pose March 28 2007, 6:10 PM
Yes! There is a certain amount of risk as with most anything else! To much of anything can harm you. Topicals like creams and patches are much safer than orals.. :]
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 3 2007, 9:56 PM
What will it feel like? I can't tell you what it will feel like for you but I can tell you a little what it's like for me.
It's terrifying. And it's exciting. It's erotic. It's perverse. It's naughty. But I don't feel that it's "wrong"..
It's many things all rolled into one. It's an emotional roller coaster to be frank. Well, I would rather be Susie but for now I'll be frank..
Having tits, physically, is no big deal. It's like being overweight and having a spare tire except it's on your chest and not around your waist. I'm disabled from a terrible injury so I can no longer run but if I could, they would bounce and I'm sure it would be pretty uncomfortable. I can cup my tit in my hand and it feels GOOD.. I mean really, really good. It's soft and fleshy and squeezable and erotic. Playing with tits is fun. Playing with your own tits is very fun. Being able to lick your own nipples, well, it's naughty, very, very naughty. And that's part of the fun of it. Hey, I'm growing tits for MY enjoyment, not for anyone else. Life would be much easier to find a girlfriend and play with her tits but since I'm TG I have to do everything the hard way. I doubt anyone will ever handle them except me unless I meet up with a woman that likes TG folks (not likely). I'm a transgender lesbian, at least mentally. My goal is to become androgynous in appearance. I MAY make a full transition later in life but that's very doubtful for now.
Back to having titties..
A few months ago before I started taking herbs when I would sit down or bend over, it felt like my ribs were trying to slide under the skin on my chest, sort of like plate tectonics, where continents collide. It's very hard to put into words but it was rather painful and very uncomfortable. Now though, when I sit or bend over, it's not so painful, I guess that area of my chest now sort of folds over. There is extra fat and flesh there and it gives now, before it was all taught and tight.
When I look in the mirror I think, "Oh. My. Gawd. I have tits. I have FEMALE tits." then I grab one and play with it a little and think "ooooooo yeah, uuummmmmmmmmmmm....."
When I sit at my desk without a shirt on and look down at them I think, "Oh. My. Gawd. I have tits. I have FEMALE tits." then I grab one and play with it a little and think "ooooooo yeah, uuummmmmmmmmmmm....."
In other words, I spend a lot of time going between freaking out about having tits and enjoying how NICE they feel cupped in my hands.. And everytime I leave my house I'm in fear of someone noticing them. Despite the fear, I continue to swallow my herbs three times a day knowing full well that I'm just ramping things up.
One thing I can say, I have always been a very, very angry person with a short fuse and a bad attitude.
After a few months on herbs, I don't feel so angry or quick to go off. Sometimes I feel silly and giggle over stupid things. I think having female hormones coursing my system is affecting my mental state, I'm pretty sure of it. It's hard to describe but I do feel different in ways. I have to be very careful not to act effeminate in public, in speech and mannerisms. That's pretty hard to keep in check, especially when I get around other women, I tend to begin mimicking their mannerisms if I'm not very careful. As much as I dearly love women, I avoid spending much time in their company because the longer they have to examine me the more likely they are to detect that I'm "a little different"...
Another thing, and this may vary from person to person, but I find body hair to be repulsive. And hairy tits? Uh, no way.
It's one thing to have tits. But hairy tits is just gross (in my mind) Tits are supposed to be soft, pretty, feminine.
Not hairy fat bags. Gawd what a disgusting thought. I'm growing tits, tits are FEMALE. I'm feminizing my body to become more female, not to become a guy with hairy fat bags on his chest.
I used to be covered with it but I've recently begun to use an epilator. I'm hoping that between the constant removal of the hair and the increased female hormone levels now in my system that the body hair will get the message and either go away or become fine and light and not noticeable. I despise shaving and will not do it. When I shave I break out in horrible rashes and I look like someone shot me with a shotgun. Epilating totally eliminates that problem from my life. But it's a never ending problem, I FREAK OUT if I can feel one little hair on my chest or stomach or legs. Gawd I hate that. Maybe one day I'll win the lottery and have total body laser hair removal..
Having tits turns me on and terrifies me at the same time. I love it and I fear it.
Sometimes I wonder why I am doing it but then I know that it's something that I can't stop myself from doing because it's who and what I am. I am two distinctly different people living in this one single body. Part of me is fighting to correct my incorrect body, part of me fights to maintain the lie and continue with the facade, to present the false image that the public expects to see, to present the body type and the speech and the mannerisms that are expected.
What's in my head doesn't jive with my body. I hope that I can appease my mind/spirit a little by bringing my body a little closer to what my mind says it should be. I didn't ask to be this way, it's just the way I am and I honestly don't see that it can be cured short of an lobotomy.
If you are thinking about growing tits, you have to think out the consequences and question yourself, "Do I REALLY have to do this?" and not "Do I really want to do this?" The key being HAVE TO.. In my case, I HAVE TO. I can't live with myself if I don't. It's not that I want to, I HAVE TO...
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Anon man
(no login) Welcome Moonstruck April 4 2007, 2:35 AM
Boy, I could really use the balancing effect of the hormones. That would be fantastic. Some days I feel like I am on a roller coaster of emotions and I haven't even started any NBE yet. TB, Fennel and everyone has posted some great advice so I should be well on my way. I'm scared only for any medical damage I may accidentally do, and the fact I am so confused with all the internet material out there. I find some article date back to 1993! I think I am still uncomfortable with some of the articles out there.
However, being a solid A cup is something I am completely comfortable with. I wouldn't even have to think twice. And as far as bra's, I am careful with shirts that reveal an outline.
But the main concern I am still researching is what too much estrogen based herbs can have on prostate and breast health.
But everyone, please keep posting, asking questions, and posting research. This is really a wonderful board. But you did say some of the TS boards post their results with herbs and the heavy stuff. I can't seem to find these boards to read about their success and concerns> I would love to read more. Are their results in line with the good gentlemen on this site?
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 4 2007, 4:18 AM
Careful with that word gentle"man"...
As for prostrate, and I may be wrong on this so don't hold me to it, but the hormones will improve your prostrate health, at least that's what I've been lead to believe from all the things I've read. I don't know for a fact though.
I have read that in many cases of men with prostrate problems they actually prescribe female hormone treatment to get the prostrate in check in an attempt to prevent surgery. In these cases they also usually prescribe some other types of hormones or steroids to try to mitigate the feminizing effects of the female hormones.
I also read in several places that heart problems are reduced as some of the herbs help to reduce bad cholesterol and improve good cholesterol. But this is all just hear say. Who knows, the internet is pot luck.
I've also read that because the herbs aren't actual hormones that they are much safer, in that they just trick your system into producing it's own female hormones naturally, thus risk of liver damage is just about nill, versus putting real hormones into your system from an external source. I am no expert by any means, I just read it and pass it on. I have no way to know for sure.
For me, I've had no real problems from herbs and I think I'm taking a pretty stout dose of them daily.
I take 3 x daily:
Soy Lecithin - 6 caplets, 1200mg each = 7,200mg per day
Saw Palmetto - 6 caplets, 450mg each = 2,700mg per day
Red Clover - 6 caplets, 500mg each = 3,000mg per day
Black Cohosh - 3 caplets, 80mg each = 240mg per day
I ran out of Saw Palmetto two days ago but that same day I started taking the Black Cohosh. I started the BC at 6 caplets per day but I found that I was getting mild stomach cramps and getting really bad RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome) which I've always had but it hasn't bothered me much in years until the other day. I have to assume it was the BC that caused my RLS to flare up. So I backed down to 3 per day.
I also read that BC is a blood thinner so I want to be careful with that.
In addition to that, I take 5mg Prilosec, every single day. I have had (and always will have) severe, extreme acid reflux for years.
I used to take huge quantities of OTC remidies, all of which are KNOWN to cause gynecomastia.
They also just did not help me so I kept taking more and more of them. They finally made Prilosec OTC and I tried it.
It works great! I have been taking Prilosec every single day now for several years, since the day I could walk into walmart and buy it off the shelf. And guess what? Prilosec causes gyne too. The prilosec box doesn't warn you of it at all but if you go to their website and dig around you'll find it given a quick mention. I think it's real name is omeprezol or something like that.
All in all, I have a lot of stuff going into my system every 8 hours. And I AM seeing results. I have a goal in mind and once I reach that boobage goal I plan to back down on the herbs because I do NOT want big giant hooters.
I have read that what ever your mom is, you can hit one cup size smaller than her. Well, I don't really know what my mom is, I don't make it a habit to check her boobs out ya know. And the last time I stole one of her bras was like 30+ years ago when I was a teen.
Just remember, this is the internet be careful. If you start to feel "funny" like dizzy or sick or something else that's not normal, back off or stop. So far so good for me. I figure at the rate I'm going, another month, two at the max and I'll have reached my goal of a pair of nice plump B's. I'll be happy to maintain them at that. And a few years down the road, if my situation improves and I decided to continue on and finish the transition, I'll resume a vigorous herbal course again and shoot for a pair of nice plump C's.
As for cross dressing, I think I've sort of outgrown that, I look horrible in a dress and makeup on me is like lipstick on a turd. When I go out and about I pay attention to the women and for the most part they just wear jeans and sneakers and t-shirts, at least around here. "Dressing up" draws too much attention to yourself and I really don't want that. I hate wearing makeup and I hate wearing jewelry. I don't even wear a wrist watch. The secret to my happiness is to just blend in to the mix, I just want to be just another person passing by that doesn't draw any attention. Maybe someone will look at me and think, "jeez, what an ugly bitch" and turn away quickly. I don't like men and I don't want their stares, attention or comments. And I don't think women are interested in me because I'm old and crippled and not very attractive as a male either. I really don't fit in with either men or women so I mostly live a quiet, private life, alone and to myself. Many years ago I was trying to "come out", I moved to the big city and was trying to do the change but I botched it up pretty good, I would wear horrible, tacky crap and draw too much attention. And once while I was "out" I met a woman, we fell in love, got married and had children. I set aside my ways even though she was perfectly OK with it all so that my kids would have a "normal" dad. My wife cheated on me, I divorced her and raised the kids myself without her help.
Now they are all grown up and living on their own and I'm all alone again in the world. Just me and my dogs now.
And they really don't care if I have titties or not, just as long as I give them treats and play with them in the yard.
Dogs are great, they love you no matter how messed up your life is.
Anyway, be sure of your motivations for feminizing yourself. I dare say that herbs will also cause other things to happen to you besides just growing tits, like maybe making you infertile, making your butt and thighs fatter like a female, giving you an hourglass body shape, etc.. There could be a bunch of things that change besides just the tits.
I don't mind if my body becomes more feminine, that's what I've always wanted since I was a very small child.
But do you want that to happen to you?
Sorry to ramble so much, I type very fast and can fill a lot of space in a very short time.. I'm a ditz too.
(o)(o)
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Some thoughts April 4 2007, 7:08 AM
It's great to read your experiences here. I too am learning from this. This is indeed my favourite area of this website. :-)
Moonstruck -
How have you been able to live an entire life suppressing the main part of yourself, the thing that makes up the real You? That would be too depressing for most to cope with. Well it is good that you are now able to do what your feelings tell you to do and I hope you will be more content and fulfilled as you reach your goals.
The T.S people that I know say that the last thing they want to do is to stick out and be noticed. Only want to blend in well with others so no one notices them really. But to have a body that is more in alignment with how one feels on the inside means so much.
I wish you the best of luck!
Fennel
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 4 2007, 9:45 AM
"How have you been able to live an entire life suppressing the main part of yourself, the thing that makes up the real You? That would be too depressing for most to cope with. Well it is good that you are now able to do what your feelings tell you to do and I hope you will be more content and fulfilled as you reach your goals.
The T.S people that I know say that the last thing they want to do is to stick out and be noticed. Only want to blend in well with others so no one notices them really. But to have a body that is more in alignment with how one feels on the inside means so much."
Well, honestly, it's been hell. I'm 46 now and have lived a life of total hell. When I was really little, like 4 or 5 years old I used to push my little pecker in and scotch tape it down so I looked like a girl. Of course I did it in secret so no one would now. That's as far back as I can remember having issues with this. Over the years I would amass large quantities of female clothing, I would get caught with it and my parents would throw it all out, beat the hell out of me and I would just go find some more to replace it. I was pretty sneaky at snagging the naughties. Then when I moved out on my own I would get a large collection then some kook on TV would thump a bible and I would get to feeling guilty and throw out all my stuff and swear it off. Over and over and over. A few times I told friends and they flipped out. I lost some friends too by telling them. When I was in my early twenties I had a live in girl friend that was a lesbian, she left another woman and moved in with me then she left me and went back to the first woman. Her lover made a better looking guy than me!
While she was living with me (she didn't know about my feelings though) I would steal her birth control pills and take them.
Had I known about herbals back then when I was young, fit and slender, I would be a full blown female in every respect by now, of that I am certain. I didn't even know what a transsexual was until I was about 25 years old, I had never even heard of them and had no idea they existed or were possible.
Not one ever suspected a thing, they were utterly clueless until I told them. I could have kept my mouth shut and no one would have ever known. In my late 20's I tried to make a go of it but I didn't know what I was doing, I was immature and I messed it all up. Plus getting married and having children put a stop to everything. Despite the wife knowing, (we met when I was wearing a dress and make up plus she used to go with me to gender meetings and electrolysis) I felt I needed to "be normal" for the kids. I'm glad I did and I don't regret those years, I love my kids dearly. Oh yeah, the brides maid at our wedding was a TS girl that used to be my very best friend when I was trying to live as a girl. Our friendship sort of fell apart after I got married because I quit dressing up and going out and my friend felt I had failed her and that I was a traitor for jumping off of the train midway. I miss her. She was my best friend. I was so jealous of her because she had the "balls" to go to the doctor and get hormones, she had her titties and an F on her drivers license and I didn't. What a trip eh?
For the past 18+ years I've tried to suppress my feelings, I've tried to ignore the voices, to deny what I know I really am.
I am for 100% certain that I have multiple personalities, as in like two or three distinctly different persons residing in this one body, one female, one male, one sort of neither and one sort of both. I'm now an Atheist. I don't fear spooks in the sky or spooks under the ground. The only demons I fear are my own, they haunt me. They are me, I am them.
Looking in the mirror weirds me out because I don't see what I feel. So I don't look in the mirror except to check my nose to make sure I don't have some nasty pimple before I go to the grocery store. The mirror is not my friend, I'm not into vanity and don't really care too much about impressing people, I don't try to look good (not possible anyway).
Now that I'm old and disabled I'm unable to be very active (extreme, constant pain) so I ended up putting on some extra weight, the extra weight just causes me more pain. I can ride a bike though and plan to ride it everyday so I can lose some of the weight. When the pot belly goes away my titties are really going to be noticeable. Oh well. I'll deal with it.
And as always, I'll continue to live alone and privately. I've lived alone so long now it doesn't bother me anymore, I actually like living alone. I've thought about finding a woman to share life with but I know it would fail because until the day I die these demons will haunt me. If I ever get hooked up with another woman she'll have to know up front what's going on in my head so I don't have to hide anything. Even though I have a desire to be female I have no interest in men. I'm not attracted to them at all. I'm only attracted to women. I would however seriously consider a relationship with a TG girl, I've seen some extremely pretty Thai Kathhoey (lady boys) that looked 100% female and were very attractive and very feminine with one little equipment difference. I doubt I'll ever follow up on that though. I'm pretty sure I'm doomed to a life alone.
Being this way is not what I asked for. I didn't want to be this way. It just happened. I would never wish this on anyone, it's a horrible thing to live with because all of your life you live in fear of discovery and you know that if *anyone* finds out you'll be hated, ridiculed, shunned and rejected. In some cases you may receive a beating, or worse, killed.
So very few people understand. Very, very few. The number of people that could understand probably number in the low thousands. The number of people that would rather see you dead number several billion..
Life is extremely unfair, it's cold and cruel. And what's worse, you only get the one life you are born with. There is no afterlife, you don't come back in another body to try again. You die and it's lights out forever. So you must make the best of what you have in the hear and now. Heaven or Hell is right here, right now, it's what you live every day.
If I'm wrong about what happens after you die I'll find out then and pay the piper at that time.
Nothing could be worse than the hell I've lived already. At least when I die my many pains will finally end.
In the mean time I am doing this to try to cope with some of my pain. Maybe feminizing myself a little will keep the demons at bay a little while. I doubt it but try I must.
Well, that's all probably way off topic, the OP asked about how it felt to have boobs and I went overboard. Typical me.
Sweet dreams all, I'm off to bed for the night!
(.)(.)
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Anon Man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 2:31 AM
You're a very open person and that has to stand for something in life. I think we can all relate to some of the things you feel. Please don't get discouraged. We all enjoy our privacy and we have our demons. The main thing is to be happy.
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Blu-jay
(Login Blu-Jay) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 2:02 PM
Yes, I agree with you Anon. I also have struggles with past demons and to this day I still think : I wonder how things would be ,Only if I had....... "Moonstruck" I also admire your honesty and openess! You're not alone out there. good luck
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 5:31 PM
Moonstruck... 46 isn't old. :-)
My fiance just turned 45.
It's all in the mind.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 8:51 PM
Thank you all.
46 IS old when you are as messed up as I am. (titanium spine, scoliosis, spinal arthritis, general arthritis plus terminal ugliness and going downhill fast) I had a terrible accident some years ago and was badly injured leaving me seriously damaged for life.
Well, I suppose there's more to this than I expected. Actually, I don't know what I expected.
Last night I broke down. A movie came on TV I hadn't seen in years since it first came out.
"Switch" with Ellen Barkin. The last time I saw that was I think about 1992. I had totally forgotten about that movie but several days ago as I was browsing the guide on my home theatre and I saw it in the listing so I programed it for recording then forgot about it again. So last night as I was going to bed (I sleep with the TV on) all of a sudden the system changes channels and I see the recording indicator on and some opening movie credits start playing. I think, oh hell, what am I recording now?
My short term memory is terrible and I forget things easily.
After a few minutes I finally see what movie is recording and I think, ok, I'll just go to sleep and watch it later.
But I lay there and kept watching it, I couldn't go to sleep. It had been so many years since I last saw that movie.
I laughed and laughed. But then I was thinking, "what the hell, she can't walk in heels (I can) but she can put on flawless makeup? (I can't)" Pffft... Oh well I thought, I'll just pretend I didn't think about that and lay here and enjoy it.
And then the end came. That's where I lost it. I started crying. And I continued to cry past the end of the movie. I turned the volume down, changed channels and rolled over to try to go to sleep. But I couldn't. I just lay there and sobbed like a (dare I say it?) a little girl. I just couldn't control myself, I couldn't make myself quit crying. So I just lay there and cried myself to sleep. It was like a wave of deep depression, of desperate desire, of a hunger that can't be satisfied had rolled in like a tsunami and I was drowning in it, struggling to keep from slipping beneath the dark waves.
It was very disturbing because I haven't lost control of my feelings like that in many years. I've kept all of my emotions locked away except one, anger. And I've spent many years exercising Mr. Anger. Mr. Anger has been my companion and guide post for the past 18 years. But I fear now that that's slipping away because yesterday my plumbing backed up into my house and made a big mess. It's an old house and there's tree roots in the lines. It's a huge pain. It does this several times a year too because I can't afford to pay someone to tunnel under my slab and replace the lines. An actual tunnel has to be dug and men have to crawl through it to do it. My neighbors had it done and it's expensive.
Anyway, in the past, (before I started taking herbs) when this would happen I would have fits of rage, I would curse and throw things and curse some more, usually my rage and cursing would carry on for several days because I have to go outside and dig up the back yard and run a snake through the lines and get all filthy nasty. Not to mention it causes me extreme pain because of my injuries and it takes me days to recover from the pain. I usually spend the following 3-4 days after a sewer line problem cursing everything in sight.
Well, yesterday I was extremely unhappy about having to deal with it once again. I of course did some cursing but I didn't end up throwing stuff this time and my cursing and rage last a much much shorter time and was much milder than previously.
I guess I should have known that having such a large amount of female hormones (about 12,000mg daily of phytoestrogens) flowing around my system would have some sort of side effect on my mental state. I didn't really think about that part of it ahead of going down this path.
I suppose it's for the better, being angry for so long really drags one down. I just hope I don't end up getting all mushy emotional and out of control like my ex wife. She cries all the time for no reason. I hate talking to her because one second she'll be fine and the next second she's sobbing it up. She runs hot and cold from one minute to the next. I guess it could have something to do with her being 51. I suppose it's that time for her. But she always was a flake, now she's even flakier. I just hope I don't get all flakey like her.
Has anyone else noticed changes in their emotional state? Good, bad or otherwise?
Ta Ta (.)(.) for now!
March 20 2007 at 4:34 AM anon man (no login)
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Before we even consider an endeavor like growing breasts, can TB or anyone else give us a good idea what this is all about? I mean, this is a goal which is irreversible. I wouldn't do the operation to go back to normal... if would just chalk it up as a bad experience. But if a woman would like to give a day to day account, please do. You live this everyday and know the feelings for many years. Whether an A or larger, you get the looks, have to be careful how you run or exercise. You even have to deal with finding bras that fit. It's not like purchasing a shirt. Maybe you should be talking us out of this!
But I think I may have very mild gynecomastia. I say very mild, because if I walk fast or ride on a bumpy road, I feel the 'bounce' a little. This maybe because my chest isn't toned and shaped as it was in my youth. But if I decide to go ahead with Fenugreek, SP and maybe Fennel, then most certainly I will feel a lot more bounce. And I am guessing there will be a little projection in my chest area which will probably be noticeable to others. Personally, I wouldn't care about the projection or the bounce if this was more accepted. But if we decide to go NBE and have an annoying bounce that may cause pain, then we may be forced to use a bra whether we like it or not. If you get to AA or A, is a bra necessary to eliminate any chest pain? Is going braless with AA or A in a T-shirt or polo shirt very obvious? Would it be noticeable? And for someone to go to the C and beyond, I would guess a bra is mandatory.
And there is no way to hide a bra. The front is more hidden than the back. However the back has the hook in the band as well as the strap adjustments that are so easy to spot. And there is the symmetry of the straps which draw your focus immediately. And the sides are noticeable too. Will other woman look at me strange? In public situations like a restraunt, it will be quite obvious. I suppose at that point, you can say it is medically necessary. But the bottom line is if you 'grow', then you have to deal with it every day.
Also if a male has these feelings, is it because of some imbalance in us? For example do we have less testosterone than other males? Do we think we want this for the right reasons or are we being manipulated by OUR hormones? Or is it a feeling of harmless submission? The problem is that whatever we feel, it is quite real. And its just as real as a women who wants NBE. Obviously if you leave the house and go out into the unforgiving world in your Hanes, Playtex, or Champion, then the feeling has to be quite strong. I try never to fault anyone based on their emotions and feelings. We are who we are. We only live once. But if we go ahead with NBE, it will be obvious every day, no matter what we wear.
On the other hand the new erogenous zones may be the allure. I still cannot believe I am researching this. I wonder what my doctor will say? What friends will say? But the desire is so strong and deep within us and that explains why we are all here.
The only other question is, with all the information out there, it sure sounds like an impossible task to accomplish. No one seems to know the correct starting doses and herbs to try. It just makes it more complicated. But at this point I want to say I am still researching, and actually intrigued by all the discussions that have occurred on all the sites. Everyone has the desire.
But any advice, will always be appreciated.
Author Reply
Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 20 2007, 7:28 AM
Hi there! And welcome to the discussion forum.
No, you don't need a bra for AA or even A cup size breasts. I have lived most of my life without a bra. I wear one when I want to look nice. I can't stand bras, they are uncomfortable. And I'm a girl.
So if you stay a smaller size you wouldn't have to wear one.
Perhaps TB can give you some insight in what it is like to be a man with breasts. You can always blame hormonal imbalance if someone would ask, I suppose. But you wouldn't have to go THAT big. You could get away with an AA or an A just wearing loose shirts and no one would know. And if you buy a bra, you could be buying it for your wife. :-)
Good luck whatever you decide.
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TB
(no login) Uhh March 20 2007, 12:56 PM
I think , if I read your post correctly, I in your situation would not pursue it The desire is not caused by a low level of testosterone. In my case it was a hormonal imbalance caused by a brain injury. I believe you are enjoying an intellectual pursuit which is fine, more people should, it would prevent them from doing something irreversible. If your single it could really affect you future relationships. I had them but figured I would make them look nice because pictures of older guys with "pancakes" on their chest looked worse to me. I am happily married. My life is already set. I am a 40D (42D) depending on the bra manufacturer. I only use a bra if they feel particularly heavy , maybe 3 days a week on average, but they are really noticeable. In my life because of who I am and the people who know me no one would ever "tease" me. I don't want to go into it too much but I am a person with many friends but also have a reputation of not being someone to "mess" with. I don't really care too much what anyone else thinks about my physical appearance so if that is important to you, don't do it. If you think your testosterone is low, get it checked out as if it is you will get Osteoporosis. I would recommend getting yourself chcked out before doing any of this to make sure there is nothing hiding "in the wings" that nay be causing the changes you are feeling. If you test out O.K. then you may want to consider moving forward with it. As for me it is something that happened to me unintentionally but I decided to enhance what was there. My breasts are part of me and I would never consider their removal. I do enjoy them and it is a sexual turn on to me. If I were younger, single, pursuing a women I would be worried though. If you are gay/bi, it might not be as great as an issue.
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Anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 21 2007, 12:04 AM
Thank you TB and Fennel! I definitely have been thinking about this for quite a while. I would love the feeling that both of you are now experiencing daily. I really want to know more about it. My spouse is not much help and its hard to be this open. I am straight and married for 15 years, but I have had this desire for a while, and the stirrings of it may even go back to puberty. I don't know what its like to have a heaviness in the chest. Please, what does this feel like?? I have no concept, but it sounds wonderful. Other than this I do feel normal, I only wish that this could happen. And if it did, I would think this is normal for me. I do tend to think things out a lot. But if Fennel is right, then an A or AA probably won't bother me to the point where I would be conscious of my body. And with no telltale hint of a bra peeking through then I can decide when and where I want to wear one.
But what is also 'blowing my circuitry' is all the confusion of the herbs, massaging and PM bar soap on these sites. You read it and may be convinced about an herb, then someone says something negative and you feel back to square one. It is really hard to figure out where to begin. I would be also be too embarrassed to ask my doctor too. However I do take sufficient vitamins, including calcium to prevent osteoperosis. My diet is very balanced... I guess unlike me :-) But I definitely am interested in learning more.
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TB
(no login) Osteoporosis March 21 2007, 2:41 AM
If you do not have sufficient testosterone in you system your body cannot absorb the calcium you take. It does not matter how much calcium you take, without testosterone your body will rob it from you bones (usually pelvis first). If you wife is O.K. with it I would recommend doing what I have beenp. Walmart sells a progesterone cream that is very effective in allowing what estrogen and phyto-estrogens you may take go to the right place. Milk thistle (cleans out your liver too) Dong Quai, Fenugreek, and Soy Isoflavones are what really worked for me (with the progesterone cream). I took two tablets each for a couple of months and massaged twice daily with the progesterone cream. Everyone is different but for me, being male, this is what worked. I was already a small C cup but now am a D cup and still filling out more.
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anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 22 2007, 3:58 AM
HI TB,
I'm still trying to digest all the information in my spare time. From reading all of your posts it sounds well thought out and researched quite well. However, I do have a question about the regimen you posted.
Everyones biggest fear is triggering off breast cancer. But in the post, are Progesterone cream, Fennugreek, Dong Quai, and Soy Isoflavins safe to take so that no cancer would develop? I heard of hormone-sensitive or hormone-receptor-positive cancers that can take root. But if I read all your information correctly, are all of these items are estrogen free?
I promise I will read a lot more over the coming weekend!
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TB
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 22 2007, 5:26 AM
The key is Phyto-estrogens. They take up the receptors and mimick the actions of estrogen. Progesterone cream helps the phyto-estrogens do what they should. Some men use progesterone cream rubbed between the rectum and testicles to prevent swelling of the prostate gland. I would never take any straight estrogen as what is available comes from horses anyway. As I said before an excess os testosterone would be turned into estrogen, which is naturally present in men also, so the progesterone cream rubbed on you breast area would help direct that also. Some people say progesterone cream alone will cause breast enhancement. I personally don't know why more women don't use it. The information on it is easily available and I noticed the most size increased when I added the daily masages with the progesterone cream to my regimen. It is available at Walmart and is marked "Progesterone Cream". It has a very mild pleasant scent. I also noticed that Milk Thistle made my abdominal area (liver) more comfortable and got rid of some acid build up I had in my stomach.
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Anonymous
(Login marsred) Re: What will it feel like? March 24 2007, 2:51 AM
go for it
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 24 2007, 10:28 AM
As you can see, you've got a little support group here already. So any questions you may have, or stuff you want to vent, just post it. We'll give you an honest answer or at least some feedback if you like.
If you're going for AA, or A cups, there is no reason to worry about what other people might think because they would only notice if you emphasised them with a bra. And I don't think your wife would mind. In fact, She doesn't even have to be told that you are actively trying to grow breasts. It is YOUR body. If she loves you, it's no biggie.
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 1:30 AM
Maybe my experience can be helpful to you. I had virtually no breast tissue before NBE. My inch of growth occured from progesterone cream. I agree with TB in that I think more women could gain from using natural progesterone cream, but it seems that many are more intimidated by it than by phytoestrogens.
I can tell you that going from extremely flat chested to what I have now has been phenomenal. I don't yet have as much as most women who begin NBE. I am just now creeping into the aaa - aa size (depending on bra strap size). Even if you have only a modest gain, you will feel the difference. It is not so much a heavy feel, as it is a 'something is in the way' feel. When I bring my knees toward my chest, my boob gets squished between my pec muscle and my leg. When I lay on my side I have a roll of boob I have to find a place for. When I am on my stomach my breasts feel uncomfortable. Sometimes the inside of my arm brushes up against 'boobage'. None of these things ever happened to me before. I still don't 'have' to wear a bra but I finally can see some bulging in the top of my padded push up (okay, truthfully, I have to actually lean forward and pull them into place to see it... and the effect is somewhat short-lived, but if you look really quick...)
I saw a guy ahead of me in the check out line at the sporting goods store today. He was buying a gun, so I know he was 'manly'. His shirt moved slightly and I saw he had WAY more cleavage than me (yes I stared, but in that side of the eye, nobody can tell sort of way) - I think that most people would think a guy with an enlarged chest (aa - A) was just sporting some manly pecs. You don't need to think about a bra - they really aren't necessary even for large breasted women (they are however very necessary for small breasted women like me who without their bra appear to have nothing at all)
hope this has been some help,
waxingmoon
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 7:29 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience waxingmoon, I too would like to try progesterone cream but unfortunately you can't buy it "over the counter" where I live. I'd need a doctors prescription so that's unthinkable. I've been thinking of bovine ovary too but am not sure if it is legal to import it here. I'm doing ok with the single herbs though, but it is a slow process.
And waxingmoon is right, men with a little boobage are often seen as if they are either muscular or slightly overweight depending on body type.
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Anonymous
(no login) To Fennel fairy March 26 2007, 2:43 PM
We need a prescription for progesterone cream here in Canada too. But I believe we can import a 3 month supply for personal use only. bovine ovary is not sold here either but we can order for personal use. You should look into that and see if you can do it in your country. Good Luck
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twinklepose
(Login twinklepose)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 26 2007, 10:21 PM
Great posts, guys.
As for P cream, I just got mine on eBay. It is called Wild Yam Cream and only cost about £10.
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anon man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? March 27 2007, 3:20 AM
That was funny about seeing the guy in line and casting a glance at his little boobage! That was so funny! I am guilty of doing that myself when I see a little cleavage from a woman. But like you it is admiring it with absolute envy. Size doesn't matter... it's all envy.
I am still on the fence about what I want to do for myself. I thought about P cream, as well as SP, Fenugreek and maybe milk thistle. But unfortunately there is so little information out there, especially for men. It's scary. I don't know what long term use of P-creme can do to a man. There is not enough information. Then you hear about all the talk of breast cancer and now with John Edwards wife putting the disease in the forefront. I know I want safety, but is that a possibility, especially when none of the research applies to men. But maybe very low dosages of SP, Fenugreek, and Milk thistle done over a period of a year may not be bad??
What dosages of SP are these weight lifters using ??
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Anonymous
(no login) Anon Man March 27 2007, 5:24 PM
You can learn alot by reading TS sites. They are basicly the only ones that have had some kind of research done on them. Although they are taking larger doses of the real hard stuff most of them do just fine.You can also find some good info about herbs and vitamins that you should be taking and the general doses on TS sites. The herbs are much weaker than the hard stuff therefore larger doses need to be taken. The amounts you take are up to you, meaning you start low and work your way up until you find that particular amount that is working for you and sometimes take a break for a few days to let your body have a rest. There no real rules of thumb about this.Basicly you will be experimenting on your self just like most of us do until we find what works for us. Then get on the forum and tell the others this & this is working for me! If you live a reasonable healthy life style you should do just fine. Hope this is of help.
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twinklepose
(Login twinklepose)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: What will it feel like? March 27 2007, 10:04 PM
Why are some women concerned about progesterone cream? Is there a breast cancer risk?
Twink x
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Anonymous
(no login) To Twinkle pose March 28 2007, 6:10 PM
Yes! There is a certain amount of risk as with most anything else! To much of anything can harm you. Topicals like creams and patches are much safer than orals.. :]
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 3 2007, 9:56 PM
What will it feel like? I can't tell you what it will feel like for you but I can tell you a little what it's like for me.
It's terrifying. And it's exciting. It's erotic. It's perverse. It's naughty. But I don't feel that it's "wrong"..
It's many things all rolled into one. It's an emotional roller coaster to be frank. Well, I would rather be Susie but for now I'll be frank..
Having tits, physically, is no big deal. It's like being overweight and having a spare tire except it's on your chest and not around your waist. I'm disabled from a terrible injury so I can no longer run but if I could, they would bounce and I'm sure it would be pretty uncomfortable. I can cup my tit in my hand and it feels GOOD.. I mean really, really good. It's soft and fleshy and squeezable and erotic. Playing with tits is fun. Playing with your own tits is very fun. Being able to lick your own nipples, well, it's naughty, very, very naughty. And that's part of the fun of it. Hey, I'm growing tits for MY enjoyment, not for anyone else. Life would be much easier to find a girlfriend and play with her tits but since I'm TG I have to do everything the hard way. I doubt anyone will ever handle them except me unless I meet up with a woman that likes TG folks (not likely). I'm a transgender lesbian, at least mentally. My goal is to become androgynous in appearance. I MAY make a full transition later in life but that's very doubtful for now.
Back to having titties..
A few months ago before I started taking herbs when I would sit down or bend over, it felt like my ribs were trying to slide under the skin on my chest, sort of like plate tectonics, where continents collide. It's very hard to put into words but it was rather painful and very uncomfortable. Now though, when I sit or bend over, it's not so painful, I guess that area of my chest now sort of folds over. There is extra fat and flesh there and it gives now, before it was all taught and tight.
When I look in the mirror I think, "Oh. My. Gawd. I have tits. I have FEMALE tits." then I grab one and play with it a little and think "ooooooo yeah, uuummmmmmmmmmmm....."
When I sit at my desk without a shirt on and look down at them I think, "Oh. My. Gawd. I have tits. I have FEMALE tits." then I grab one and play with it a little and think "ooooooo yeah, uuummmmmmmmmmmm....."
In other words, I spend a lot of time going between freaking out about having tits and enjoying how NICE they feel cupped in my hands.. And everytime I leave my house I'm in fear of someone noticing them. Despite the fear, I continue to swallow my herbs three times a day knowing full well that I'm just ramping things up.
One thing I can say, I have always been a very, very angry person with a short fuse and a bad attitude.
After a few months on herbs, I don't feel so angry or quick to go off. Sometimes I feel silly and giggle over stupid things. I think having female hormones coursing my system is affecting my mental state, I'm pretty sure of it. It's hard to describe but I do feel different in ways. I have to be very careful not to act effeminate in public, in speech and mannerisms. That's pretty hard to keep in check, especially when I get around other women, I tend to begin mimicking their mannerisms if I'm not very careful. As much as I dearly love women, I avoid spending much time in their company because the longer they have to examine me the more likely they are to detect that I'm "a little different"...
Another thing, and this may vary from person to person, but I find body hair to be repulsive. And hairy tits? Uh, no way.
It's one thing to have tits. But hairy tits is just gross (in my mind) Tits are supposed to be soft, pretty, feminine.
Not hairy fat bags. Gawd what a disgusting thought. I'm growing tits, tits are FEMALE. I'm feminizing my body to become more female, not to become a guy with hairy fat bags on his chest.
I used to be covered with it but I've recently begun to use an epilator. I'm hoping that between the constant removal of the hair and the increased female hormone levels now in my system that the body hair will get the message and either go away or become fine and light and not noticeable. I despise shaving and will not do it. When I shave I break out in horrible rashes and I look like someone shot me with a shotgun. Epilating totally eliminates that problem from my life. But it's a never ending problem, I FREAK OUT if I can feel one little hair on my chest or stomach or legs. Gawd I hate that. Maybe one day I'll win the lottery and have total body laser hair removal..
Having tits turns me on and terrifies me at the same time. I love it and I fear it.
Sometimes I wonder why I am doing it but then I know that it's something that I can't stop myself from doing because it's who and what I am. I am two distinctly different people living in this one single body. Part of me is fighting to correct my incorrect body, part of me fights to maintain the lie and continue with the facade, to present the false image that the public expects to see, to present the body type and the speech and the mannerisms that are expected.
What's in my head doesn't jive with my body. I hope that I can appease my mind/spirit a little by bringing my body a little closer to what my mind says it should be. I didn't ask to be this way, it's just the way I am and I honestly don't see that it can be cured short of an lobotomy.
If you are thinking about growing tits, you have to think out the consequences and question yourself, "Do I REALLY have to do this?" and not "Do I really want to do this?" The key being HAVE TO.. In my case, I HAVE TO. I can't live with myself if I don't. It's not that I want to, I HAVE TO...
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Anon man
(no login) Welcome Moonstruck April 4 2007, 2:35 AM
Boy, I could really use the balancing effect of the hormones. That would be fantastic. Some days I feel like I am on a roller coaster of emotions and I haven't even started any NBE yet. TB, Fennel and everyone has posted some great advice so I should be well on my way. I'm scared only for any medical damage I may accidentally do, and the fact I am so confused with all the internet material out there. I find some article date back to 1993! I think I am still uncomfortable with some of the articles out there.
However, being a solid A cup is something I am completely comfortable with. I wouldn't even have to think twice. And as far as bra's, I am careful with shirts that reveal an outline.
But the main concern I am still researching is what too much estrogen based herbs can have on prostate and breast health.
But everyone, please keep posting, asking questions, and posting research. This is really a wonderful board. But you did say some of the TS boards post their results with herbs and the heavy stuff. I can't seem to find these boards to read about their success and concerns> I would love to read more. Are their results in line with the good gentlemen on this site?
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 4 2007, 4:18 AM
Careful with that word gentle"man"...
As for prostrate, and I may be wrong on this so don't hold me to it, but the hormones will improve your prostrate health, at least that's what I've been lead to believe from all the things I've read. I don't know for a fact though.
I have read that in many cases of men with prostrate problems they actually prescribe female hormone treatment to get the prostrate in check in an attempt to prevent surgery. In these cases they also usually prescribe some other types of hormones or steroids to try to mitigate the feminizing effects of the female hormones.
I also read in several places that heart problems are reduced as some of the herbs help to reduce bad cholesterol and improve good cholesterol. But this is all just hear say. Who knows, the internet is pot luck.
I've also read that because the herbs aren't actual hormones that they are much safer, in that they just trick your system into producing it's own female hormones naturally, thus risk of liver damage is just about nill, versus putting real hormones into your system from an external source. I am no expert by any means, I just read it and pass it on. I have no way to know for sure.
For me, I've had no real problems from herbs and I think I'm taking a pretty stout dose of them daily.
I take 3 x daily:
Soy Lecithin - 6 caplets, 1200mg each = 7,200mg per day
Saw Palmetto - 6 caplets, 450mg each = 2,700mg per day
Red Clover - 6 caplets, 500mg each = 3,000mg per day
Black Cohosh - 3 caplets, 80mg each = 240mg per day
I ran out of Saw Palmetto two days ago but that same day I started taking the Black Cohosh. I started the BC at 6 caplets per day but I found that I was getting mild stomach cramps and getting really bad RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome) which I've always had but it hasn't bothered me much in years until the other day. I have to assume it was the BC that caused my RLS to flare up. So I backed down to 3 per day.
I also read that BC is a blood thinner so I want to be careful with that.
In addition to that, I take 5mg Prilosec, every single day. I have had (and always will have) severe, extreme acid reflux for years.
I used to take huge quantities of OTC remidies, all of which are KNOWN to cause gynecomastia.
They also just did not help me so I kept taking more and more of them. They finally made Prilosec OTC and I tried it.
It works great! I have been taking Prilosec every single day now for several years, since the day I could walk into walmart and buy it off the shelf. And guess what? Prilosec causes gyne too. The prilosec box doesn't warn you of it at all but if you go to their website and dig around you'll find it given a quick mention. I think it's real name is omeprezol or something like that.
All in all, I have a lot of stuff going into my system every 8 hours. And I AM seeing results. I have a goal in mind and once I reach that boobage goal I plan to back down on the herbs because I do NOT want big giant hooters.
I have read that what ever your mom is, you can hit one cup size smaller than her. Well, I don't really know what my mom is, I don't make it a habit to check her boobs out ya know. And the last time I stole one of her bras was like 30+ years ago when I was a teen.
Just remember, this is the internet be careful. If you start to feel "funny" like dizzy or sick or something else that's not normal, back off or stop. So far so good for me. I figure at the rate I'm going, another month, two at the max and I'll have reached my goal of a pair of nice plump B's. I'll be happy to maintain them at that. And a few years down the road, if my situation improves and I decided to continue on and finish the transition, I'll resume a vigorous herbal course again and shoot for a pair of nice plump C's.
As for cross dressing, I think I've sort of outgrown that, I look horrible in a dress and makeup on me is like lipstick on a turd. When I go out and about I pay attention to the women and for the most part they just wear jeans and sneakers and t-shirts, at least around here. "Dressing up" draws too much attention to yourself and I really don't want that. I hate wearing makeup and I hate wearing jewelry. I don't even wear a wrist watch. The secret to my happiness is to just blend in to the mix, I just want to be just another person passing by that doesn't draw any attention. Maybe someone will look at me and think, "jeez, what an ugly bitch" and turn away quickly. I don't like men and I don't want their stares, attention or comments. And I don't think women are interested in me because I'm old and crippled and not very attractive as a male either. I really don't fit in with either men or women so I mostly live a quiet, private life, alone and to myself. Many years ago I was trying to "come out", I moved to the big city and was trying to do the change but I botched it up pretty good, I would wear horrible, tacky crap and draw too much attention. And once while I was "out" I met a woman, we fell in love, got married and had children. I set aside my ways even though she was perfectly OK with it all so that my kids would have a "normal" dad. My wife cheated on me, I divorced her and raised the kids myself without her help.
Now they are all grown up and living on their own and I'm all alone again in the world. Just me and my dogs now.
And they really don't care if I have titties or not, just as long as I give them treats and play with them in the yard.
Dogs are great, they love you no matter how messed up your life is.
Anyway, be sure of your motivations for feminizing yourself. I dare say that herbs will also cause other things to happen to you besides just growing tits, like maybe making you infertile, making your butt and thighs fatter like a female, giving you an hourglass body shape, etc.. There could be a bunch of things that change besides just the tits.
I don't mind if my body becomes more feminine, that's what I've always wanted since I was a very small child.
But do you want that to happen to you?
Sorry to ramble so much, I type very fast and can fill a lot of space in a very short time.. I'm a ditz too.
(o)(o)
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Some thoughts April 4 2007, 7:08 AM
It's great to read your experiences here. I too am learning from this. This is indeed my favourite area of this website. :-)
Moonstruck -
How have you been able to live an entire life suppressing the main part of yourself, the thing that makes up the real You? That would be too depressing for most to cope with. Well it is good that you are now able to do what your feelings tell you to do and I hope you will be more content and fulfilled as you reach your goals.
The T.S people that I know say that the last thing they want to do is to stick out and be noticed. Only want to blend in well with others so no one notices them really. But to have a body that is more in alignment with how one feels on the inside means so much.
I wish you the best of luck!
Fennel
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 4 2007, 9:45 AM
"How have you been able to live an entire life suppressing the main part of yourself, the thing that makes up the real You? That would be too depressing for most to cope with. Well it is good that you are now able to do what your feelings tell you to do and I hope you will be more content and fulfilled as you reach your goals.
The T.S people that I know say that the last thing they want to do is to stick out and be noticed. Only want to blend in well with others so no one notices them really. But to have a body that is more in alignment with how one feels on the inside means so much."
Well, honestly, it's been hell. I'm 46 now and have lived a life of total hell. When I was really little, like 4 or 5 years old I used to push my little pecker in and scotch tape it down so I looked like a girl. Of course I did it in secret so no one would now. That's as far back as I can remember having issues with this. Over the years I would amass large quantities of female clothing, I would get caught with it and my parents would throw it all out, beat the hell out of me and I would just go find some more to replace it. I was pretty sneaky at snagging the naughties. Then when I moved out on my own I would get a large collection then some kook on TV would thump a bible and I would get to feeling guilty and throw out all my stuff and swear it off. Over and over and over. A few times I told friends and they flipped out. I lost some friends too by telling them. When I was in my early twenties I had a live in girl friend that was a lesbian, she left another woman and moved in with me then she left me and went back to the first woman. Her lover made a better looking guy than me!
While she was living with me (she didn't know about my feelings though) I would steal her birth control pills and take them.
Had I known about herbals back then when I was young, fit and slender, I would be a full blown female in every respect by now, of that I am certain. I didn't even know what a transsexual was until I was about 25 years old, I had never even heard of them and had no idea they existed or were possible.
Not one ever suspected a thing, they were utterly clueless until I told them. I could have kept my mouth shut and no one would have ever known. In my late 20's I tried to make a go of it but I didn't know what I was doing, I was immature and I messed it all up. Plus getting married and having children put a stop to everything. Despite the wife knowing, (we met when I was wearing a dress and make up plus she used to go with me to gender meetings and electrolysis) I felt I needed to "be normal" for the kids. I'm glad I did and I don't regret those years, I love my kids dearly. Oh yeah, the brides maid at our wedding was a TS girl that used to be my very best friend when I was trying to live as a girl. Our friendship sort of fell apart after I got married because I quit dressing up and going out and my friend felt I had failed her and that I was a traitor for jumping off of the train midway. I miss her. She was my best friend. I was so jealous of her because she had the "balls" to go to the doctor and get hormones, she had her titties and an F on her drivers license and I didn't. What a trip eh?
For the past 18+ years I've tried to suppress my feelings, I've tried to ignore the voices, to deny what I know I really am.
I am for 100% certain that I have multiple personalities, as in like two or three distinctly different persons residing in this one body, one female, one male, one sort of neither and one sort of both. I'm now an Atheist. I don't fear spooks in the sky or spooks under the ground. The only demons I fear are my own, they haunt me. They are me, I am them.
Looking in the mirror weirds me out because I don't see what I feel. So I don't look in the mirror except to check my nose to make sure I don't have some nasty pimple before I go to the grocery store. The mirror is not my friend, I'm not into vanity and don't really care too much about impressing people, I don't try to look good (not possible anyway).
Now that I'm old and disabled I'm unable to be very active (extreme, constant pain) so I ended up putting on some extra weight, the extra weight just causes me more pain. I can ride a bike though and plan to ride it everyday so I can lose some of the weight. When the pot belly goes away my titties are really going to be noticeable. Oh well. I'll deal with it.
And as always, I'll continue to live alone and privately. I've lived alone so long now it doesn't bother me anymore, I actually like living alone. I've thought about finding a woman to share life with but I know it would fail because until the day I die these demons will haunt me. If I ever get hooked up with another woman she'll have to know up front what's going on in my head so I don't have to hide anything. Even though I have a desire to be female I have no interest in men. I'm not attracted to them at all. I'm only attracted to women. I would however seriously consider a relationship with a TG girl, I've seen some extremely pretty Thai Kathhoey (lady boys) that looked 100% female and were very attractive and very feminine with one little equipment difference. I doubt I'll ever follow up on that though. I'm pretty sure I'm doomed to a life alone.
Being this way is not what I asked for. I didn't want to be this way. It just happened. I would never wish this on anyone, it's a horrible thing to live with because all of your life you live in fear of discovery and you know that if *anyone* finds out you'll be hated, ridiculed, shunned and rejected. In some cases you may receive a beating, or worse, killed.
So very few people understand. Very, very few. The number of people that could understand probably number in the low thousands. The number of people that would rather see you dead number several billion..
Life is extremely unfair, it's cold and cruel. And what's worse, you only get the one life you are born with. There is no afterlife, you don't come back in another body to try again. You die and it's lights out forever. So you must make the best of what you have in the hear and now. Heaven or Hell is right here, right now, it's what you live every day.
If I'm wrong about what happens after you die I'll find out then and pay the piper at that time.
Nothing could be worse than the hell I've lived already. At least when I die my many pains will finally end.
In the mean time I am doing this to try to cope with some of my pain. Maybe feminizing myself a little will keep the demons at bay a little while. I doubt it but try I must.
Well, that's all probably way off topic, the OP asked about how it felt to have boobs and I went overboard. Typical me.
Sweet dreams all, I'm off to bed for the night!
(.)(.)
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Anon Man
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 2:31 AM
You're a very open person and that has to stand for something in life. I think we can all relate to some of the things you feel. Please don't get discouraged. We all enjoy our privacy and we have our demons. The main thing is to be happy.
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Blu-jay
(Login Blu-Jay) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 2:02 PM
Yes, I agree with you Anon. I also have struggles with past demons and to this day I still think : I wonder how things would be ,Only if I had....... "Moonstruck" I also admire your honesty and openess! You're not alone out there. good luck
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 5:31 PM
Moonstruck... 46 isn't old. :-)
My fiance just turned 45.
It's all in the mind.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
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Moonstruck
(Login moonstruck61) Re: What will it feel like? April 5 2007, 8:51 PM
Thank you all.
46 IS old when you are as messed up as I am. (titanium spine, scoliosis, spinal arthritis, general arthritis plus terminal ugliness and going downhill fast) I had a terrible accident some years ago and was badly injured leaving me seriously damaged for life.
Well, I suppose there's more to this than I expected. Actually, I don't know what I expected.
Last night I broke down. A movie came on TV I hadn't seen in years since it first came out.
"Switch" with Ellen Barkin. The last time I saw that was I think about 1992. I had totally forgotten about that movie but several days ago as I was browsing the guide on my home theatre and I saw it in the listing so I programed it for recording then forgot about it again. So last night as I was going to bed (I sleep with the TV on) all of a sudden the system changes channels and I see the recording indicator on and some opening movie credits start playing. I think, oh hell, what am I recording now?
My short term memory is terrible and I forget things easily.
After a few minutes I finally see what movie is recording and I think, ok, I'll just go to sleep and watch it later.
But I lay there and kept watching it, I couldn't go to sleep. It had been so many years since I last saw that movie.
I laughed and laughed. But then I was thinking, "what the hell, she can't walk in heels (I can) but she can put on flawless makeup? (I can't)" Pffft... Oh well I thought, I'll just pretend I didn't think about that and lay here and enjoy it.
And then the end came. That's where I lost it. I started crying. And I continued to cry past the end of the movie. I turned the volume down, changed channels and rolled over to try to go to sleep. But I couldn't. I just lay there and sobbed like a (dare I say it?) a little girl. I just couldn't control myself, I couldn't make myself quit crying. So I just lay there and cried myself to sleep. It was like a wave of deep depression, of desperate desire, of a hunger that can't be satisfied had rolled in like a tsunami and I was drowning in it, struggling to keep from slipping beneath the dark waves.
It was very disturbing because I haven't lost control of my feelings like that in many years. I've kept all of my emotions locked away except one, anger. And I've spent many years exercising Mr. Anger. Mr. Anger has been my companion and guide post for the past 18 years. But I fear now that that's slipping away because yesterday my plumbing backed up into my house and made a big mess. It's an old house and there's tree roots in the lines. It's a huge pain. It does this several times a year too because I can't afford to pay someone to tunnel under my slab and replace the lines. An actual tunnel has to be dug and men have to crawl through it to do it. My neighbors had it done and it's expensive.
Anyway, in the past, (before I started taking herbs) when this would happen I would have fits of rage, I would curse and throw things and curse some more, usually my rage and cursing would carry on for several days because I have to go outside and dig up the back yard and run a snake through the lines and get all filthy nasty. Not to mention it causes me extreme pain because of my injuries and it takes me days to recover from the pain. I usually spend the following 3-4 days after a sewer line problem cursing everything in sight.
Well, yesterday I was extremely unhappy about having to deal with it once again. I of course did some cursing but I didn't end up throwing stuff this time and my cursing and rage last a much much shorter time and was much milder than previously.
I guess I should have known that having such a large amount of female hormones (about 12,000mg daily of phytoestrogens) flowing around my system would have some sort of side effect on my mental state. I didn't really think about that part of it ahead of going down this path.
I suppose it's for the better, being angry for so long really drags one down. I just hope I don't end up getting all mushy emotional and out of control like my ex wife. She cries all the time for no reason. I hate talking to her because one second she'll be fine and the next second she's sobbing it up. She runs hot and cold from one minute to the next. I guess it could have something to do with her being 51. I suppose it's that time for her. But she always was a flake, now she's even flakier. I just hope I don't get all flakey like her.
Has anyone else noticed changes in their emotional state? Good, bad or otherwise?
Ta Ta (.)(.) for now!