progesterone cream
August 10 2007 at 8:44 PM wishfulthinking (no login)
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I am currently useing progesterone cream in my program. I got the standard GNC product and am applying about 1/2 tp a day to my inner thigh. The product didn't come with any real directions and I am guessing here, So what would be the recommended application size on a daily. Should you take a monthly break from the cream. any ideas.
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Perhaps not every day... August 10 2007, 8:50 PM
I think Progesterone should be used only a part of the month to have the best effect. If you are taking something estrogenic too, that is.
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wishfulthinking
(no login) red clover August 10 2007, 9:10 PM
I am taking red clover 430 mg 3X a day does this interfer with the progesterone and is a 1/2 tp to much or to lillte. I was planning to lay off the cream one week out of four.
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 11 2007, 12:28 PM
You should go see the *drlam.com* health site.
He features Dr.Lee,hormone specialist.
They explain all kinds of things about hormones and how they interact.
According to them you should be take a USP Progesterone that is no less than 500-600mg. per ounce.
You should get 25-30mg per day when on your "cycle"
They say the proper ratio of Prog. to Estradiol is 26/1.
Its recommended to use Prog. for 10 days.another place said 14 day limit.
Progesterone is very important for breast development....it prevents fibrotic tissue growth that causes conical shaped breasts and the aleolas need it or they will be immature.
Prog. is responsible for the differentiation and multiplication of cells in the lobules and alveoli,so its needed to develop the actual mammary glands
Hey,Fennel
Natural Progesterone reduces the levels of Androstenedione,its the precursor to Test.,Estriol,& Estradiol.
I finally came across my little note about that.I recall you were wondering about what exactly their interactions were.
I havent seen it say that it hurts estrogen itself.
*Most of the HRT cremes like Natural Therapy brand, have estriol and progesterone both,so if Prog.hurts Est then why would they put them together in the same application.It kept bugging me seeing that,then I came across a note that I wrote down awhile back,when I saw that info. on some site....And that answered my question.
I also came across a fact that said Estriol is highest during pregnancy,and progesterone is at its highest also.....so,we have two things to support the working of Prog. and Estriol at the same time.
I hope this helps clear things up.
Maybe it should be posted on the other side...eh?
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Anon
(no login) Aereola question August 11 2007, 7:01 PM
So if you want your aereola's to grow in size, you MUST use progesterone cream?? Why can't this cream be applied to the side of the breast like TB used to recommend? And how does a male determine what time of the month to apply this cream? If I could not grow breasts, I would be happy with broader aereola's and larger nipples. Does the progesterone cream increase the nipple size too??
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Davilee August 11 2007, 10:54 PM
The reason why both estrogen and progesterone is high during pregnancy:
Estrogen and progesterone are both essential for the initiation and maintenance of pregnancy. Pregnancy is characterized by elevated levels of circulating estrogens and progesterone, which increase with advancing gestational age. The estrogen is needed to prepare breasts for breastfeeding and high estrogen levels means high levels of prolactin too, which is vital for milk production. To avoid the possible deleterious effects that high estrogen levels could have on the developing fetus, and the high risk of stroke and bloodclots, the body counteracts the raised E levels by increasing progesterone. The increase in progesterone levels with progression of pregnancy, leads to down-regulation of estrogen. This is because the body needs really high estrogen on one hand but on the other hand it can be harmful. Pregnancy shouldn't be used as a norm to compare progesterone and estrogen levels for NBE or feminisation purposes.
Normally, women do not have equal, or sky high, levels of the two. Estrogen is high in the beginning of the cycle and progesterone is high in the end of the cycle. Estrogen is dominating in the female system from day one to day 12 of each cycle and from day 12-26 it's progesterone that is dominant. Perhaps it's a good idea for M-F Transsexuals to mimic that hormonal fluctuation by only using progestrone cream for a part of the month.
Progesterone cream is commonly used to lower estrogen levels for women who have uterine fibroid tumours that are caused by too much estrogen. That is a fact. Using progesterone lowers estrogen levels simply because progesterone counterbalances estrogen levels if they are high. And for us who are doing NBE they ARE high if we take estrogen in Bovine Ovary form, or estrogenic herbs. If the levels weren't high, we wouldn't get the effect we want.
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 12 2007, 1:14 AM
Hmmmmm....DUUUUUHHHHH!!!!
I knew most of that already thank you....
I know that Prog. and Est's are not at same levels all the time they're always changing....
Ive never said anything about baseing a program on pregancy levels of hormones.
Where have I ever said that??
Stefanie was musing about that once in a discussion.
People assume a lot,if just a couple of things are posed. I was just musing about what Ive read on hormone and breast/pregnancy info. sites.
Im not stating my musings or theories as stone facts....
Im just telling you what Ive read. I do not fabricate things.
I just get an idea and see what somebody else thinks.
And of course you should use it in the same way as to mimic a female hormone cycle...that just goes without saying...its common sense...
I dont know if it will increase nipple size....thats the problem with some of the hormone and breast subject info on various medical sites....one will say that estrogen is responsible for nipple areola development and another site will say that Progesterone is.....SOooooo,what are we to believe?
I operate on the open minded policy and do not rule out anything...that is the sure way for closing possibilities.I try not to diminish a possibility unless there is very good proof or research and has no strong contradictions.
Not trying to be mean at first....just have to defend myself as to my knowledge and understanding...
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Anon
(no login) Fennel, Davilee.... August 12 2007, 3:23 AM
How does Progesterone cream now fit into the equation? If one uses Saw palmetto, Fennel and Fenugreek, does this mean you should take these herbs for two weeks? Then take Progesterone Creme for the next two weeks??
Also where is a safe place to rub it in? Wouldn't it be beneficial on the breast where TB recommended? Yet I recall reading that you should rub it on the feet? Maybe thigh???
I am so confused in setting up a program.
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 12 2007, 7:50 AM
Progesterone does nothing for Nipple size.It is the estrogen. Estrogen is responsible for breast growth, meaning developement of the gland,ducts and so forth. Estrogen increases breast size outward,adding progesterone will help add fullness and some size in width.
It's not good to start progesterone right at the beginning. TS girls were saying first you go on E, then after six months to a year you start your progesterone. The reason for this is that the progest. will work against the E.They claim that it can reduce/block your E by as much as Half.If you take highlevels of E you should be Ok,But what does progest. do to phyto-E Since it's 10 to 20 thousand times weaker than prescription E? This is where it can get confusing. Some questions one needs to ask is : Is the progest.cream, the same as oral progest? does it have the same effect? What would real progest.cream do to the Phyto-E? Could it possibly work against the phyto-E and cause the Phyto-E to be in effective?
In my oppinion, I would stick to the Phyto-E only for the first few months. Oh yeah! don't for get those antiandrogens.
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 12 2007, 9:13 AM
****Thats not correct about Progesterone and Estrogen Blu-jay****
Ive written this several times now...I think this was from Mamadearest or LeLeche League and Ive read it on several other medical sites.
>>Estrogen stimulates cell mitosis and growth of the **ductal* system.And is responsible for multiplication of progesterone receptors.
>>Progesterone is responsible for growth development and differentiation of the *glandular* tissues the lobules and alveoli....**NOT estrogen**
Notnotnot E.
Its fact.
I dont know why improper info keeps getting repeated.
The *Initial development of the ducts and most fat accretion is by estrogen
Ive read it in the Dr.Lee hormone info. also.
Progesterone **prevents* immature growth of the breast as it prevents fibrotic tissue growth,which causes the conical tough condition.
*Progesterone causes maturation of the areoli.
This last one is probably because of the high amounts during pregnancy,300-400mg+/-produced daily as differs from 20-25mg+/-daily during menstrual cycle.
So,I dont think that biomales are going to be able to properly mimic pregnancy,there's just too much hormonal flucuations and high levels.
According to the info in the herbal library...oregano is one of the herbs with a natural high level of progesteronic compounds,it was info from a big research study.....of course it is only 8 mcg/per 2gr of dry herb.
Mandrake is also 8mcg and so is Ocotillo.
Licorice is 3 and Fennel is 2mcg.
*****Here is an important fact about Progesterone that a research study had done; this is from Dr.Lam's site.
Progesterone stimulates production of the P53 oncogene which causes cancer cells to die.
Hows that for a good reason to use it??
It also says that E1(estrone) and E2(estradiol) when added to prostate or breasts causes the oncogene BCL2 to let cancer cells grow rapidly.
E3 (estriol),* Prevents* cancer growth
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Yes August 12 2007, 1:03 PM
I think we've pretty much covered it. To Anon: I think the best is to take the phytoestrogen all the time but to add progesterone for about 12 days a month. Apply to any area with thin skin for maximum penetration.
Jesus - Reading back on my other post I sound like a scool teacher. Sorry about my lecturing way, I don't mean to imply that anyone else is stupid or anything. I, just like you, want to find the key to all of this too. It's just very complicated.
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Anon
(no login) Everyone, is this correct?? Please corret and add information. August 12 2007, 3:28 PM
<< To Anon: I think the best is to take the phytoestrogen all the time but to add progesterone for about 12 days a month. Apply to any area with thin skin for maximum penetration. >>
First, I think I need another screen name other than "Anon", but I am at a total loss for one.
Now the good stuff:
Remember I want to try Saw Palmetto, Fenugreek, and Fennel(or RedClover)
Day 1 through Day 18:
Saw Palmetto (anti-androgen)
Fenugreek, and Fennel(or RedClover) (phytoestrogen)
Day 18
Saw Palmetto (anti-androgen)
Fenugreek, and Fennel(or RedClover) (phytoestrogen)
progesterone (for breast fullness and other male well being. Thoug do not apply directly to breast)
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Good luck with your program August 12 2007, 3:35 PM
It's all trial and error with NBE. I hope this will work well for you. Keep a journal every day of what you take and write down side effects, measurements and other observations.
You could do all 3 phytoestrogens/phytoprogesterones there - fenugreek, fennel AND red clover and then saw palmetto as an anti androgen. Good choice to only use progesterone cream for half of the month.
If it doesn't work after using a few months, try another program.
Best of luck!
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 13 2007, 2:39 AM
That's fine and dandy about the progest. But those reports, are they done on bio males?
Bio males have a whole body chemistry that needs to be over come for them to be female.
Yes I believe in In DR.Lam & Dr Lee but in us bio males our body chem has been in beded with in us since birth. So there is a difference in the way, that our bodys need to take hormones to change from M to F.
Most TS/TG girls that I've read their storys said that they didn't get progest till 6 to 12 months after starting E. I wonder why that is ? maybe thier docs. are dumb, I dunno.
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 13 2007, 2:45 AM
Sorry I didn't mean to be rude in that last post but something came up and I had to send message and get out of the forum. Will continue this conversation another time :-)
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) No I was a smart ass again... August 13 2007, 6:01 AM
Im sorry...I was being a smart alec,I know were all trying to help each other.
We just want the right info. out there and we dont want folks to get ill or waste their time...do ya agree?
Thanks for your time digging up stuff Fennel....
I didnt mean to be snide Blu...
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Yah...your correct Blu-jay....... August 13 2007, 7:31 AM
Your right in saying that we have to consider the biomale charcateristics when trying to plan this stuff....
Did you know that Progesterone is produced in the male for preserving the lifespan of the spermatzoa??
Well,I keep going back to the main idea that either sex's breasts are supposed to behave the same when given the signals and nourishment that they need to start developing.
Ive read that Estradiol causes cells to make more Progesterone receptors and causes the Pituitary gland to make more Prolactin producing cells. Prolactin causes cells to make more Estrogen receptors.
You are so right about the importance of long established Androgens.
Im sorry,I sometimes forget about that as Im younger and i have low testosterone due to my particular genetic sexual weirdness.
I do believe that biomales can develop more receptors over time....its like much of this issue...it takes time to modify cells and get enough of the newer moded cells in action to get on with the feminizing.
I know that many are hindered by the fact that they havent decided to do this until later in life...Hell,.I keep beating myself up over not doing it back when I was 25...on my Tribes groups,Ive seen guys that were way male and they started early with the TS and hormone treatments and they are so F'ing! Awesome looking.....I just sit there and flip back and forth between their pics of before and after and I can hardly believe it.
Then I want to throw myself off a very high thing....because the way my bods shaped I wouldve been ahead in the game,and by now I would look like a real woman...
...must not obsess...must not obsess...must not obsess....
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anon
(no login) Very interesting August 13 2007, 2:33 PM
I hope Fennels idea is good for someone going ONLY for NBE. I don't want to go all the way, but I fully support everyone who wants to.
So, Fennel, Red Clove, Fenugreek, Saw Palmetto the whole month... then Pregest creme for twelve days good for NBE?? (I hope)
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) To Anon: August 13 2007, 4:55 PM
Try the program on quite low doses for three months or so. Then take a couple of weeks break and see what has happened. I don't think it will affect your erections unless you are on really high doses but if you start noticing trouble with erections, you can always stop the herbs for a while and your body will get your testosterone levels back up again while any possible breast growth will stay regardless.
Have you got kids? This can affect your fertility.
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 13 2007, 7:42 PM
There are pros & cons to progesterone use.
Yes progest. is very beneficial to both fems.& males. Good for prostrate and balancing hormones. now what I'm saying is that progest. has no effect on the developement on the nipples.
In bio females progest. balances the effects of E dominance or negate the effects of the abundant E.
In males Progest. also balances the hormones but is produced by the testes at a rate lower than in females.
According to DR.Lee It can increase libido in men.( which means that the T levels are at a normal male level, this can be disturbing to M2Fs)Remember the T is responsible for libido in males & females. Progesterone cream is an excellent product to use for males because it has no feminizing effcts to the male body. This is according to Dr. Lee.
Believe me ,I'm not saying that progest. shouldn't be added to any regimen because I think it should. It boils down to a matter of when to add it.
Here are some sites that use info.by Dr.Lee:
www.jonbarron.org/barron_reports/10-1-1999.php
www.npis.info/canmenbenefit.htm
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 14 2007, 10:23 AM
Yes...."when to add it?" is right.
I havent been able to come up with an appropriate answer for myself,as to how long to go with the estrogenics before Prog.
Ive read so many conflicting articles and see so many people saying different things on forums....that I start doubting all of it.
Who's right??
Yah,Im sure that it depends on your sex and how old you are.
I think I saw that men would need to get 25-30mg of PROG.,to have normal female levels..i may be recalling that wrong.
Oh,Wishful' and Anon: Prog. was suggested as being more useful as a topical application by Dr.Lee,he said it was best to apply to body areas that have thin fat layers like feet, ankles,back of the neck,under arms,wrists,neck,etc. use your imagination.
**BECAUSE,the prep can get into the blood quicker that way.
AND you should alternate application spots so as to distribute the PROG. evenly around the body over longer periods.
Anyway,Ive read so much about people having breast UNdevelopment when they used PROG.,and then Blujay mentioned about TS/TG's Dr's keeping them from it until what was it?....10-12 months?
Hmmmm...the only thing that I can figure is if its like a girls prepuberty development ,Ive read that they get estrogens a long time before they get Progesterone in larger amounts.....then there is also the Xenoestrogens or EST's from foods and milks...
OR perhaps were you reading about TS that had recieved implants?...then perhaps the Dr's were just trying to keep down natural glandular growth in their breast tissue until they healed up awhile.
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 14 2007, 3:29 PM
No, one of the girls is a C cup and it's all her own growth.
It had something to do with being on The E for a while and letting it do it's thing,then after a while adding the progest. to help stabilize the E.
what I've read on some sites is that Apparently, the Jury is still out and debating the need for progest.in the developement of breasts on TG girls. If I find that article again I will post the site.
I browse through tons of sites and forget to keep track of where I've been. :-\ Good thing that doesn't happen to me at the mall. ;-) I'd have to start wearing name tags with my address and phone# written on it.
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 14 2007, 7:00 PM
HAAHAHAHA...I feel like that too,so dont feel bad.
Hey Im sorry for being a smartass to you and Fennel,Blujay.
Just think of me as your annoying younger sister,who thinks she knows everything and is a brat sometimes when she thinks shes right all the time....hehehe...gawd,i can be a shrill little ass sometimes....you should hear me at home,or *better yet not*.....Im getting better...the estrogen boosting helps,*most* of the time and THEN some of the time makes it WORSE.
I liked when Fennel told us to "shut it!" on that other thread of Morticias about the state of America....I felt like my older sister was getting on me for going on and on about something...hahaha
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Anon
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 15 2007, 4:25 AM
Yes definitely post more when you come across more information about when to introduce Progeterone cream. This sounds very important.
BTW is there any reason you do not apply it directly to the breasts? I could never understand. Maybe its the absorption rate because of the thicker skin?
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 15 2007, 10:39 AM
Yah,Anon...its a dodgey subject....like I said before we all read so many different things and then we bicker because the info. is contradictory....
That Sucks!!!!...our bickering,I mean....and the info. being crazy...
Ive read in one place to apply Prog. to the breasts....but most places say to apply to thin skin areas,Dr.lee info for one....
Its all about getting the prog. to the blood stream the fastest..it will get to where its going.
The adrenals produce Prog.,but its halfed in biomales,I mused on a way to stimulate more production....perhaps taking adrenal glandulars.....BUT..a theory of mine is that once you get to a certain level of fat distribution in the body and a certain level of Est.,that it will kick up the adrenals production of Prog at certain times such as when some of us experience the affects of a period...
Like I said before,The more EST's you get the more Prog. receptors your cells produce.
The more EST's the more the pituitary is able to produce Prolactin
The more prolactin,the more LPL and it also helps growth in the glands.
These are from sci/fact sites.
I dont know..Im just musing with the info....I never say "NO it wont work for sure",unless its a concrete fact that it wont.
BUT, doc's are sometimes suprised about things that dont fit into their little research "boxes".
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Blu-Jay
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 15 2007, 2:42 PM
Yes Anon, There is much conflicting info out there. That's why it's not good to get info. from one source and call it the Bible. the info. may not really apply to what you are trying to do. The Info that most sites give is direct to females and males.What about males transitioning to females? Or males trying to grow female breasts? The chemistry in the male body is/was not meant by nature to do this. yes,we understand the need and uses of progest. in females also in males.Now,the amounts of progest. and the way the male body uses progest. is quite different than females. Females require alot more progest. than males.Females have a uterus,they menstruate,pruduce eggs,bear children and grow mammary glands meant to nurse the children,their bone structure is also designed for this purpose.
So what I'm saying is,we as genetic males can mimic some of that,we will never be genetic females, no matter what sex we are in our minds. So,do we require the same amounts as females? It's fact that estrogen is responsible for female characteristics,like breasts,softer skin,hair growth and texture,and fat distribution in more female areas.The usual doses for M2Fs that I could find, is high in estrogen and a daily low dose of Progest.That is, if progest. is given to the patient.
Progest. does have a role in the areas that I mentioned above.But it's still a question of how much is really needed? and when should should someone start taking it?
I don't want to make a overly long post so I'll stop for now, but this is an interesting topic and we should keep posting info.about this as we find it. I'm sure we all want to get to the bottom of this. :-)
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TB
(no login) My experience August 22 2007, 5:40 PM
My experience with progesterone was that it really made my breasts fuller. I apply it directly to my breasts. The skin is thin there is just a lot more behind it. I know when I have enough when it stops absorbing. I also made a vacuum pump that had a quarter (U.S.) size hole in it. I would use progesterone cream as a lubricant. My nipples went from about 5/8ths of an inch to 1 1/4 inches across. My nipples stayed about the same size but are more conical. When they get hard the whole areola get hard and is rather pronounced. I am on testosterone replacement therapy due to a pituitary gland problem. The excess testosterone can turn into estrogen. The side effect is gynecomastia. I use progesterone as I have read it can "guide" estrogen to the receptors on the breast and that may help breast growth. My experience is that this is true. Soy Isoflavones and Milk Thistle with Fenugreek and the use of progesterone cream was the combination that worked the most for me. I have stopped taking everything but plan to start up again in for about 3 months to see if I gain anymore growth or fullness. My beasts have not reduced in size. I use progesterone every 3 weeks for about a week, or sometimes just for a good massage. I could be and probably am wrong but this is just what I have experienced. The Walmart stuff is what I use and is not as expensive as the GNC stuff. I can tell by the packaging and smell that it is the same manufacturer and the same stuff. I also must apply Androgel twice a day to my shoulders and this has not reduced my breast size at all.
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 23 2007, 7:39 AM
Thanks TB good to know your experiences.
We can learn something from it.
Yes,I read that Estrogen mutiplies progesterone receptors.....SO,I wonder if its also the same with Prog,as to stimulating Estrogen receptors?
Im intrigued bt this,lets try and find more on this,eh?
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mbe
(Login mbe1) Re: progesterone cream August 23 2007, 7:51 PM
I am a little confused, doesn't saw palmetto do the same thing as progesterone cream? Or is the idea to boost the effect of saw palmetto, say, one week each month? And once again being cyclic with one's NBE program?
______________
www.male-breast-enlargement.org
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 23 2007, 7:56 PM
I think it was Waxingmoon,over yonder ...that has said that progesterone does stimulate estrogen receptors...Im still trying to get answered if its multiplying the receptors or just making them work better.
uh...I may have gotten that backwards as to prog. and estr.,darn I get confused sometimes trying to remember...
!!!I just looked at it for gosh sakes!!!....and I still blanked out on it...
SHEESH!!!!
Im turning into a........dingy chick!!! AAAAAAAAAGGHHH!!!
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stefanie
(Login stefanie_ss) Re: progesterone cream August 23 2007, 11:25 PM
i agree with tb. i have used prog cream early in my program. like her, i have applied it directly to the breast. it definitely was a boost to my development. i haven't used it for a while but i am starting again this weekend. i know some people don't think it is necessary, but i do. my program works faster with it then without it. btw, i used it for 3 weeks of every month for 3 months.
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Davi-lee
(Login Davi-lee) A rephrasal....(is that a word?) August 24 2007, 12:29 PM
I meant a *dingier* chick...I was already a chick and well on my way to being spacey already....HAHAHA...
The hormone boosts have just made me worse.
Yes,Stefanie,I really need to get on Progesterone already...I keep putting off ordering it,because there is so many brands....
I think that I'm going to get the 1000-2000mg/per oz. kind. Its about 18.00 for 4oz. through Amazon stores.
How long after starting your program did you start the Proges. Stefanie??
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stefanie
(Login stefanie_ss) Re: progesterone cream August 25 2007, 12:10 AM
i started right away. in the very beginning, i was using extra strength estroven and progesterone cream. then i switched to the herbals and only herbals. i think it was the progesterone that gave me my initial boost.
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Anon
(no login) Progesterone Cream on breasts is OK - read on August 25 2007, 2:55 AM
Found this on the Dr Lee website.
http://www.johnleemd.com/store/faqs_progest_crm.html
Q: Where should I put the progesterone cream?
A: Because progesterone is very fat-soluble, it is easily absorbed through the skin. From subcutaneous fat, progesterone is absorbed into capillary blood. Thus absorption is best at all the skin sites where people blush: face, neck, chest, breasts, inner arms and palms of the hands.
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Anon
(no login) and from cancer.gov August 25 2007, 2:59 AM
<
Anything that increases your risk of getting a disease is called a risk factor. Risk factors for breast cancer in men may include the following:
* Being exposed to radiation.
* Having a disease related to high levels of estrogen in the body, such as cirrhosis (liver disease) or Klinefelter syndrome (a genetic disorder).
* Having several female relatives who have had breast cancer, especially relatives who have an alteration of the BRCA2 gene.
>>
Does this mean males should add progesterone to offset the higher levels of estrogen from herbs like Fennel, Fenugreek, and others??
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) My info again on cancer and hormones..... August 25 2007, 4:28 AM
Stefanie I thought the estroven website said it was totally made from herbs??
Black Cohosh the main one.
So,Id like to know for sure did this cause you a lot of changes??
Well,Ive been debating whether Black Cohosh would actually do anything for genemales.
I was going to try Estroven as Black Cohosh seems to be a powerful phyto estrogenic herb. Thats why I was trying to find the ingredient list,so I could just find them myself.
Alright Im going to write this again as it seems to be ignored where it was before....About cancer and the hormones....
E1 estrone E2 estradiol E3 Estriol......
E1 and E2 are the most potent estrogens at 10% each of total estrogen.
E1 and E2 sometimes affects prostate or breasts by causing oncogene BCL2 to let cancer cells grow rapidly.
***E3 actually prevents cancer growth.***
The chances of cancer should only be considered if the person isnt taking health and diet precautions to avoid this...If you boost your immune system and have high levels of anti oxidents, anti cancer/antitumor foods and supplements in your diet then you shouldnt have to worry about it.
Herbs that have antioxident, anti-cancer/anti-tumor properties::
Astragalus,milk thistle,turmeric,licorice,garlic,parsley,rosemary,pau d'arco,green tea,alfalfa,birch,burdock,cat's claw,chaparral,cranberry,dandelion,fennel,macela,wheat grass,spirulina,kelp,barley grass.
AND there's Vitamin C also.
Turmeric is one that they are reserching in India thoroughly now and finding it has major importance as a powerful anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer medicine.
I take several of these herbs already,I dont fool around with being complacent and worrying about negative possibilities...
Men produce mainly E2 and E3.
**P53 oncogene causes cancer cells to die.**
**Progesterone stimulates P53 oncogene.**
I hope this clears some things up.
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Anon
(no login) Re: progesterone cream August 26 2007, 4:07 AM
So adding these herbs to our diet should negate the cancerous risk. That's good. I am already on some of these too. I also take a lot of selenium too. That has good free radial scavenging properties.
Great post! That puts my mind at rest a bit. Though I may still add the progesterone maybe two weeks per month to mimic a female and to get the benefit of this creme.
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Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone cream August 26 2007, 7:33 AM
These herbal supplements are usually taken to improve your health. Feminization is a secret bonus.
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My private little stash of girly goodies:
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Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 26 2007, 11:41 PM
Yah,its all about how much you take.
Consuming different amounts will have diff. effects.
Small maintainence amounts will be good for most people for health reasons..but then they also have other abilities when taken in larger amounts and combining them with other herbs.
I do find it one of the most facinating subjects....thats why im obsessive about it.
When I actually began seeing physical changes in myself from taking the herbs only for a short time...I was hooked..and overjoyed.
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Anon
(no login) Need your opinion.... August 28 2007, 2:03 AM
It has been fourteen days and no signs yet. I am not too worried as I am probably going slower than most. But I was just wondering if going slow is good? ... like "you arrive at your destination but it only takes longer". Does it look like I am in any danger? Here is my plan in case you need it.
(Saw Palmetto Berry 450mg) 1800 mg per day
(Fenugreek 610mg) 3050 mg per day
(Red Clover 430mg) 2150 mg per day
Soy Lecithen 1040 mg per day
Dreaming about mammary glands.... "all day long"
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Morticia
(Login moonstruck61) Re: progesterone cream August 28 2007, 3:09 AM
Hang in there. I've been into this for about 8 1/2 months now and I'm a small B now.
It takes time. I think it was months before I noticed any tingles/pains.
We are all different and respond differently to the herbs.
Your regime is probably ok but our resident guru Fennel would know better.
Just remember, it takes time...........................
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http://transhouston.com/members/blog/morticia
My private little stash of girly goodies:
http://tgchix.dyndns.org/girlystuff.html
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Fennel Fairy
(no login) Progesterone and galactogogues August 28 2007, 6:34 AM
Just a word of advice for those of you who are using galactogogues to stimulate prolactin:
Progesterone will work against the effects of prolactine in the body so if you are trying to either lactate or make breasts develop further through promoting prolactine, progesterone cream should NOT be used in excess, or for the major part of the month.
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: progesterone cream August 28 2007, 7:51 PM
Yes its always good to reitterate these things....
I think that its been mentioned several times lately.
Prolactin is definitely something that we all need for development.
***See the prolactin talk thread over yonder everybody,it has good info. about prolactin and its stimulators and reducers.
Its labeled something like "galactagougues,prolactin,body fat,...somethinsomethin like that.....
