[AnnieBL]

Add in in cultural and timeline variables and things start to get out of hand

Indeed. The perception depends on the cultural framework in which one resides.

In the culture of my raising -- Western Judeo-Christianity -- there isn't even a word, let alone a category, for a two-spirit. There's Adam & Eve... there's a talking snake and seas parting and Balaam's ass and a reincarnated prophet... but no gender nonconformity, no sirree. It would be bad enough just like that, but the rabbis of old apparently saw fit to place some specific prohibitions on crossdressing just to nail that coffin shut, I reckon.

The gender dysphoria in this cultural framework, in my opinion, isn't so much that as it is cognitive dissonance. That is to say, the person finds himself at odds with that which he is presumed to believe. "God made me, but doesn't want me to be this way." Believing two opposite things at once is a sure path to mental anguish or illness -- and indeed disease can arise from this stress.

Then, somewhere in the middle, we could mention the "hijra" of India. While the word may not be perfectly synonymous with "third gender", we could think of it as such. They are a caste that is looked down upon by most, to be sure, but they at least do have a name and a place in the society -- and the modicum of respect one may enjoy without the Judeo-Christian imputation of "sin". Perhaps most importantly, the hijra have not been infected by Western psychiatry. Gender identity disorder? Nah, they just is what they is, man.

And at the other end, we find among yet other cultural frameworks, such as some American Indian tribes, that the two-spirit is a well-respected member of the group. He or she or both or... whatever... will also not infrequently be a holy person, a shaman, a medicine man/woman, a mediator, a spirit-caller. Man-woman and woman-man are special people with special skills. There's simply no call for psychiatry here -- who's going to send the medicine man to a shrink? Gender dysphoria? I can hear the laughter of the Lakota from here.

To come to a point -- each of these three examples could be the same person -- the same boy who is half girl, or whatever the case may be. In one framework, he is bad; a sinner, mentally ill, in need of treatment. In the second, he is accepted as different -- not bad -- and given a place. In the third, he grows up to heal the sick, guide the tribe, and become a respected elder.

I'm not going to come right out and say that psychiatry and its DSM are bullshit... though I could, it is my belief that cultural framework is the more important factor. It is clear to me that the guilt and shame I experienced as a youngster were a result of the of the conflict between me and the cultural framework I grew up in, not because of something intrinsically wrong with my persona. When you teach kids that being unlike the others is wrong, is it any surprise that we get mental problems? What if you had grown up with a different framework, one that celebrates life in all its variety?

We are slowly changing that framework. When the last psychiatrist is hanged, strung up with the guts of the last preacher, that's when, in the immortal words of Garth Brooks, "We Shall Be Free".

And that, Flamesabers... is when your scale will be meaningless.

MissC,

I agree with most of what you say, except the portion starting with the second sentence of your second last paragraph. Life's just not like that. Whatever the framework, changes won't set you free, they will just shift the bars. Whatever profession or type of service provider we are talking about, and not just psychiatrists, a substantial proportion will always consider that since , as they must believe, their (usually overpriced) services are good for you (and too often that more of of their services must be better for you), they will do their best to see your situation as a problem or disorder that can be corrected by their specialty. As for preachers, the decline of traditional religions in our society is largely because the human need to be preached to is satisfied by all sorts of alternative preachers such as dieticians and professional advisers and 'counselors' of various stripes. You obviously are not enamored of the framework in which you were brought up, but I fancy that you might find that alternative frameworks such as those mentioned in your post were just as restrictive in quite different ways.

Most of us are embarrassed by failure to conform adequately to societal norms of behavior, and one definition of humanity says that the human is the only animal whose sense of embarrassment outweighs its sense of self preservation. No wonder that inability to conform to such societal norms of behavior may be dysphoric, even without any understanding of the cause.

Bear in mind also that in our current society psychiatrists and counselors, however much you may object to their characterization of sex/gender variance, may hold the key to accessing the medical technology needed to at least diminishing that variance.

Referring to your comments about hijra, was your use of the word 'man' at the end a comment on the essential ambiguity of the word (all of us, one sex only, one gender only,or nothing to do with either (as in 'chairman')?