[Lotus]

Any thoughts about taking photo-estrogens while on HRT?

I ask because FG seems to be help with my asthma so I would like to keep it going, but not sabotage my development.

Depends on the amount taken, taking a small dose would seem (imo) not to interfere with Estradiol as a larger dose (which smaller doses of phtyos are more effective than large doses), helps provide "some" prostrate and breast cancers protection. People with nut and chick-pea should stay clear of FG. Some studies exist, but it has to deal with diosgenin and fenugreek seeds. Clearly, the evidence I've read leads me to believe it's an adaptogen. Most phytoestrogens have an affinity for ER-b (estrogen receptor beta), which is more a breast cancer protective, ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha) is the proliferative estrogen receptor, the one that promotes growth, and FG seeds are positive for ER-a. But, one study showed there was a bump in DHT after workouts (using FG), I can't find it anymore, not sure why?, I list it here because it's the only reference regarding how FG increases DHT, (or as they say it's lacking). The study involved fitness resistance:

Over the course of the study, total and bioavailable (“free”) testosterone increased 6.57% and 12.26%, respectively, in the subjects taking fenugreek. Estradiol and DHT levels also increased (26.6% and 6.10%, respectively), though not significantly. No changes in hormone levels were found in the placebo group

T. foenum-graecum (aka-Fenugreek)

Here's another related study concerning FG, MCF-7 is positive for ER-a, which FG clearly shows positive cell sensitivity and stimulates growth. And while I believe some phtyoestrogens down-regulate cell lines and receptors resulting in an anti-estrogenic and influence androgens, FG hasnt shown that specificity except in one study, which I noted.

Estrogen-like activities and cytotoxicity effects of Thai herbal medicines as natural ingredients in anti-ageing

With respect to herbal medicines traditionally used as a galactogogue to increase inadequate breast milk supply, only T. foenum-graecum promoted the growth of MCF-7 cells in a dose-dependent manner.

http://www.nanotec.or.th/en/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/64525.pdf


MCF-7 cells are useful for in vitro breast cancer studies because the cell line has retained several ideal characteristics particular to the mammary epithelium. These include the ability for MCF-7 cells to process estrogen, in the form of estradiol, via estrogen receptors in the cell cytoplasm. This makes the MCF-7 cell line an estrogen receptor (ER) positive control cell line.
http://www.mcf7.com

Does this mean Fenugreek makes it to the top of NBE herbs list?, maybe, if the product was verified for potency and quality I'd be inclined to say it's in the top two or three. Our beloved PM actually down regulates breast growth in higher concentrations, which has been previously reported and backed by scientific evidence here at BN. Which means, breast growth falls short (eventually), and simply becuase it's an anti-estrogenic and has slight androgenic properties. The binding affinity leans more towards ER-b than ER-a, plus, it acts more like E1 estrone.

It's plausible to alternate or cycle PM, for instance, every other day, or 3-4 days on and 3 off. During the alternated days supplement with other herbs, e.g. vitex, red clover, fenugreek. Finding legitamte NBE herbs becomes the next obstacle to overcome. It's an unregulated industry, so......it would be nice if an herbal manufacturing company stepped up to the plate and had their products verified by an independent source (lab) with no interest, in the meantime, I won't hold my breath.

Is Fenugreek a Phytoestrogen?.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19654