31-12-2011, 06:32 PM
waeg123,
Welcome to the forum. My first suggestion is spend a lot of time going through threads on the new forum as well as the archives of the forum in it's former incarnation. I would recommend even reading up on the other subsections such as herbal and glandular NBE even if you don't think you want to go that route, and look at threads that don't at first glance seem to apply to your situation. There is a wealth of information here, but you have to dig a bit to find it.
My second recommendation is proceed with caution. This stuff works (for many/most) for real, despite what you might read about wasting your money on herbs on more traditionally oriented transgender sites.
The following is based SOLELY on my experience and may not be generalizable to anyone else. On the other hand it may help you in your journey so here it is.
I have what I consider relatively strong gender dysphoria, or Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID). What you describe in yourself sounds much like my GID. I have seen a number of therapists over the years, once specifically for my GID. My experience with therapy is that MOST haven't got a clue about what you are feeling and experiencing and aren't worth the air they breathe let alone the hundreds or thousands of dollars I spent finding that out. To date, their educational background/degree hasn't seemed to mean diddly as to how much help I have received. On the other hand the amount of help you receive is directly related to how honest you are willing to be with/about yourself and what you are feeling and how you communicate with your therapist. That's just my experience, so far. I do plan on searching out a therapist after the new year as I need some advice on how to proceed in my life. However, I am going into it with a very different set of expectations than any time before, so I may have more success.
The weaker herbs (FG, black cohosh, soy) did not seem to have an effect on either my breasts or my GID, but others have reported different experiences and some breast growth. The only two things that seemed to help me have been pueraria mirifica (PM) and estradiol. I would caution you not to expect "relatively fast growth" as NBE is a long term process--think in terms of years rather than weeks or even months. It can take 3 or 4 months just to get signs of real breast growth.
As for that growth, there are numerous posts/threads describing the typical sequence of events in development of your breasts. The long and short of it is that fat redistribution to the breast is relatively reversible, at least up to a point. If you have not had significant glandular development you may indeed be able to have a pretty normal looking male chest after some breast growth once you stop NBE activities. I encourage you to explore the better gynecomastia sites (gynecomastia.org is a good one) to read about what it takes to get rid of breasts if you decide later you don't need/want them.
Once you have significant glandular development (what starts out as breast buds and eventually develops into mature breast tissue/mammary glands), you can only reduce that by surgery. Gynecomastia surgical reduction WILL leave you with visible scars and depending on the skill of the surgeon more or less success in achieving that chiseled male-looking chest. There are no guarantees with surgery either and undesirable effects and regrowth is a real possibility. Again, I highly recommend you read about that BEFORE you embark on this journey.
If I measure with a tape measure, I am somewhere around a small to full a-cup at this point (in some brands and styles of bras I fill a b-cup, but not in most brands/styles), and have been for about 4 or so months, maybe longer. However, development is continuing in my breasts, and they actually have more prominence now than several months ago. I can feel further development of glandular tissue despite no increase in tape measurements. They are no longer quite as compressible/hideable as when there was relatively more fat and less glandular tissue.
As for breast shape, I suspect that wearing bras may help shape the breast. The down side is that almost all bras are made to accentuate the breasts and show them off. If you want to present as male, that becomes an issue, even with a-cup breasts. Also realize that there are as many different shaped breasts in GG's as you can imagine, so too in males that enlarge their breasts. Check out dargona's pic's for someone much closer to your age than folks like sfem, wishful or myself.
As far as maintaining reproductive capacity, that is anyone's guess. No one knows for sure how feminization with herbs affects male reproductive capacity. We do know that sterility is the eventual result when using estradiol. Sterility is reported also with glandular NBE using bovine ovary extract. Will the same happen with PM? I have not read anywhere that this is so, but it seems logical that if an herb is effective enough to counteract (possibly even decrease production of) testosterone, it can eventually result in sterility. Animal studies with PM and real world observation of the effects of xenoestrogens on various marine animals suggests male reproductive capacity is adversely affected. My opinion: if you think fathering children is very important to you in the future, you have several options: put off herbal, hormonal or glandular NBE until after having kids, bank your sperm, don't do it at all. You might find other options, so by all means keep us informed.
If you decide this is something you have to do for yourself, I hope/believe there are women out there for whom this will not be an impediment to entering into a relationship. In my opinion, I think this will change how people see you and will have an effect/impact on potential life partners. In all situations, whether you start on this journey or not, BE HONEST with your partner and tell them what is in your heart. I'm not suggesting this is the first thing you talk about, but if a relationship gets serious, talk about it sooner rather than later.
Above all, enjoy the journey and always keep in mind, what works for one, may not work for another. In other words, your mileage may vary!
Cheers and good luck.
Welcome to the forum. My first suggestion is spend a lot of time going through threads on the new forum as well as the archives of the forum in it's former incarnation. I would recommend even reading up on the other subsections such as herbal and glandular NBE even if you don't think you want to go that route, and look at threads that don't at first glance seem to apply to your situation. There is a wealth of information here, but you have to dig a bit to find it.
My second recommendation is proceed with caution. This stuff works (for many/most) for real, despite what you might read about wasting your money on herbs on more traditionally oriented transgender sites.
The following is based SOLELY on my experience and may not be generalizable to anyone else. On the other hand it may help you in your journey so here it is.
I have what I consider relatively strong gender dysphoria, or Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID). What you describe in yourself sounds much like my GID. I have seen a number of therapists over the years, once specifically for my GID. My experience with therapy is that MOST haven't got a clue about what you are feeling and experiencing and aren't worth the air they breathe let alone the hundreds or thousands of dollars I spent finding that out. To date, their educational background/degree hasn't seemed to mean diddly as to how much help I have received. On the other hand the amount of help you receive is directly related to how honest you are willing to be with/about yourself and what you are feeling and how you communicate with your therapist. That's just my experience, so far. I do plan on searching out a therapist after the new year as I need some advice on how to proceed in my life. However, I am going into it with a very different set of expectations than any time before, so I may have more success.
The weaker herbs (FG, black cohosh, soy) did not seem to have an effect on either my breasts or my GID, but others have reported different experiences and some breast growth. The only two things that seemed to help me have been pueraria mirifica (PM) and estradiol. I would caution you not to expect "relatively fast growth" as NBE is a long term process--think in terms of years rather than weeks or even months. It can take 3 or 4 months just to get signs of real breast growth.
As for that growth, there are numerous posts/threads describing the typical sequence of events in development of your breasts. The long and short of it is that fat redistribution to the breast is relatively reversible, at least up to a point. If you have not had significant glandular development you may indeed be able to have a pretty normal looking male chest after some breast growth once you stop NBE activities. I encourage you to explore the better gynecomastia sites (gynecomastia.org is a good one) to read about what it takes to get rid of breasts if you decide later you don't need/want them.
Once you have significant glandular development (what starts out as breast buds and eventually develops into mature breast tissue/mammary glands), you can only reduce that by surgery. Gynecomastia surgical reduction WILL leave you with visible scars and depending on the skill of the surgeon more or less success in achieving that chiseled male-looking chest. There are no guarantees with surgery either and undesirable effects and regrowth is a real possibility. Again, I highly recommend you read about that BEFORE you embark on this journey.
If I measure with a tape measure, I am somewhere around a small to full a-cup at this point (in some brands and styles of bras I fill a b-cup, but not in most brands/styles), and have been for about 4 or so months, maybe longer. However, development is continuing in my breasts, and they actually have more prominence now than several months ago. I can feel further development of glandular tissue despite no increase in tape measurements. They are no longer quite as compressible/hideable as when there was relatively more fat and less glandular tissue.
As for breast shape, I suspect that wearing bras may help shape the breast. The down side is that almost all bras are made to accentuate the breasts and show them off. If you want to present as male, that becomes an issue, even with a-cup breasts. Also realize that there are as many different shaped breasts in GG's as you can imagine, so too in males that enlarge their breasts. Check out dargona's pic's for someone much closer to your age than folks like sfem, wishful or myself.
As far as maintaining reproductive capacity, that is anyone's guess. No one knows for sure how feminization with herbs affects male reproductive capacity. We do know that sterility is the eventual result when using estradiol. Sterility is reported also with glandular NBE using bovine ovary extract. Will the same happen with PM? I have not read anywhere that this is so, but it seems logical that if an herb is effective enough to counteract (possibly even decrease production of) testosterone, it can eventually result in sterility. Animal studies with PM and real world observation of the effects of xenoestrogens on various marine animals suggests male reproductive capacity is adversely affected. My opinion: if you think fathering children is very important to you in the future, you have several options: put off herbal, hormonal or glandular NBE until after having kids, bank your sperm, don't do it at all. You might find other options, so by all means keep us informed.
If you decide this is something you have to do for yourself, I hope/believe there are women out there for whom this will not be an impediment to entering into a relationship. In my opinion, I think this will change how people see you and will have an effect/impact on potential life partners. In all situations, whether you start on this journey or not, BE HONEST with your partner and tell them what is in your heart. I'm not suggesting this is the first thing you talk about, but if a relationship gets serious, talk about it sooner rather than later.
Above all, enjoy the journey and always keep in mind, what works for one, may not work for another. In other words, your mileage may vary!
Cheers and good luck.