[GoneGirl]

Penetration is certainly an important aspect of feeling female, but it is essentially something to which you need to be subjected by another. While I have certainly in my time tried various forms of self penetration, ultimately like any other form of self gratification, none of them have really cut it for me, and with the limited socket equipment we have as genetic males , I am left doubting to what extent the effects resemble the real thing. At least when I grow breasts, I can believe that they and the associated sensations are truly something female rather than male.

I agree with you completely, Annabel. Self penetration was a part of my autogynephilic fantasy days. It made the fantasies that much more real, if you know what I mean. PM has changed that 180 degrees. I'm kind of surprised at how the focus of my sexuality has shifted from the lower half of my anatomy to the upper half.

Clara, by ‘talk about sex’, did you mean just talking about copulation or solitary substitutes for it, or the whole spectrum of physical and experiential differences between male and female?

As I spent a good deal of time reading posts here before posting anything myself, I was surprised that there was very little discussion about the effects of NBE on one's sexual life, other than it lowering one's libido and adding nipples to one's erogenous zones. I wanted to understand more about how these herbs affect one's sex life for the better or worse, how one's attitudes about sex change, and how these changes are being integrated into one's relationship with a wife/lover. I didn't think about the reproductive aspects of sex (duh!), but that's another area of interest for many, certainly.

Certainly for me, one reason for not seeking transition (besides existing relationships), is this incompleteness, and also the obstacles that my height, build and voice present to my becoming a passable woman. I’m interested in the art of the possible, and the rest, for me, has to be just fantasy. I’m in no way trying to belittle those who do need to take transition as far as possible, and for that reason I have been putting most of this in the first person since it represents only my own personal perspective. It is clear that many of you can and do become what to me are beautiful and attractive women (albeit sterile - not necessarily a disadvantage), and I am both happy for you and more than somewhat envious.

Oh, I totally agree with you here. I'm 67 years old and have missed the boat on making a go of realizing the full potential of my female identity. But, even at my age, my inner woman is crying out for expression -- and I'm giving her every means possible to blossom. It is limited in the ways you mentioned, although in some ways I have greater freedom to transition than many of the younger members of the forum. I don't have an employer to fret about. My children are grown. My wife is accepting of my womanliness. But even with those advantages, I can't ever become a Sarah Schilling. If I could become what Sarah will look like in her 60s, that would be fine, but it's not possible. Hey, that's okay. I get so much satisfaction being free to be who I am in the limited ways that are still open to me. I'm thankful for that.

Clara