[Heaven's Night]

Teaching your mother how to fuck, I guess I don't know a thing about what I'm talking about. Nor about anything I'm doing either.  I have never used the creams on such high doses, tops 40mg of E2/E3 or Prog. And I guess it doesn't matter either that TCP is used on breasts which doesn't give as high over all levels anyway as its effect is largely localised. Then again, I'm using the same stuff on hips and butt as its works there.

But I know nothing about this, I haven't been doing this stuff for over five years, conventional HRT for 44 months, topicals for 18 months.

I'll let you do the talking since you're clearly much more knowledgeable than I am. So nice when a newbie is better in the know.

[Billie]

Lara I listen to you about NBE HRT and topicals. In my opinion I hold back a lot I know about these subjects. There is one key instruction my Endocrinologist instructed me is to listen to more experienced people when it comes to meds and supplements. He rearranges when and how much I take my inputs. Also, I was instructed what to eat and what diet books to read and follow. My progress included 200 plus pounds of weight loss, dropping my cholesterol and blood sugar to normal and now dropping meds. My program is based on morning afternoon 4pm and night NBE and meds and topicals and daily pumping and binaural beats meditation. I have maximized NBE and grew over 4 inches and 4 cup sizes nearly 3 inches areola growth.

[Heaven's Night]

Calling me irresponsible for stating the fact that low dose creams are far less potent than high dose pharma HRT ingredients is insulting as fuck. 

And as if I wouldn't know humility to listen to those who are better in the know? I've been studying and exprimenting all this for years now, I've discussed with Lotus in detail about it all, as well as with my now ex endocrinologist. I know humility, but that ends when I'm called irresponsible when mixing up apples and oranges.

I never talked about effect of hormone creams used on high doses, this topic is Topical Cream Protocol, and the doses used are mostly moderate. High doses on creams isn't even economical as the prices are insanely high compared to HRT medications which do the same thing far better. But then again, I'm piss poor and have to think of every tiniest purchase to make it, so who am I to say anything if others can spam money away to using fuckton of creams when there's cheaper and more efficient methods available.

I was going to post here about the cumulative effects of PPAR-gamma activating stuffs, but I kinda feel reluctant know as I clearly do not undestand what I'm talking about. And there's something to be said about alternating days of E2 and P4, as well as about topical use of Bovine Ovary, and how well shot of olive oil ends up giving everyting a boost. And how Vitex & EPO combo helps goive a kick to topical progesterone.

Not that I have quite nice, just a little bit of results to back it up. 
I'll leave all that for later as I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm obviously irresponsible.

[Ernie]

I spent months studying the subject and am currently undergoing HRT supervised by Dr. Powers.

As far as I can see (corroborated by Dr. Powers):

1. Local E2, in addition to E2 HRT, makes sense, but levels should be checked since even some OTC E2 creams are high concentration.
   
2. Success stories are from people who are on E2 HRT protocols as well. That should disqualify such evidence since E2 is a key component in breast development.
   
3. Protocol specifics are made from short periods of self-observations of a single person with multiple changes simultaneously. 
   
4. Universal DHEA suggestion is problematic:
   a) for an unknown share of users, it would generate more androgens than estrogens (that's what it does for me)
   b) with topical E2, it's a moot point to generate more E2 locally - oversaturation of receptors is not helpful
   c) it can also have progestogenic effects, which should be avoided in early development.
   
5. It's unclear if RC PPARγ properties would outweigh weak phytoestrogen competing on receptors with topical E2. Localized PPARγ is understudied. Volufiline and adifyline might work or not, but at least they won't compete with estrogen receptors like RC vs E2. And, again, there is no clear evidence that it does.
   
6. IGF levels should be high for the growth. Whether it requires vitamins to be checked is an individual matter. Whether D3 works topically, nobody knows, and with DMSO, it might easily do a D3 poisoning case.
   
7. Nobody knows what's inside BO. It's a soup of dried and ground cow ovaries. One cow is different from another, and no components are controlled. A best it's controlled for food consumption. Solving that powder in ethanol, adding DMSO (which penetrates the skin barrier for large-weight molecules), and punching direct holes in the skin through derma rolling effectively removes body safeguards and introduces unpredictable bio-derived chemistry in the body. Doing it long enough sounds like a recipe for disaster. It can't be possibly recommended.
   
8. Skin penetration accelerants should be avoided as well - insane peaks of E2 are hurting, unsafe, and not helpful. It also opens a door for poisoning where disinfection might not even work.
   

[Ernie]

Calling me irresponsible for stating the fact that low dose creams are far less potent than high dose pharma HRT ingredients is insulting as fuck. 

And as if I wouldn't know humility to listen to those who are better in the know? I've been studying and exprimenting all this for years now, I've discussed with Lotus in detail about it all, as well as with my now ex endocrinologist. I know humility, but that ends when I'm called irresponsible when mixing up apples and oranges.

I never talked about effect of hormone creams used on high doses, this topic is Topical Cream Protocol, and the doses used are mostly moderate. High doses on creams isn't even economical as the prices are insanely high compared to HRT medications which do the same thing far better. But then again, I'm piss poor and have to think of every tiniest purchase to make it, so who am I to say anything if others can spam money away to using fuckton of creams when there's cheaper and more efficient methods available.

I was going to post here about the cumulative effects of PPAR-gamma activating stuffs, but I kinda feel reluctant know as I clearly do not undestand what I'm talking about. And there's something to be said about alternating days of E2 and P4, as well as about topical use of Bovine Ovary, and how well shot of olive oil ends up giving everyting a boost. And how Vitex & EPO combo helps goive a kick to topical progesterone.

Not that I have quite nice, just a little bit of results to back it up. 
I'll leave all that for later as I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm obviously irresponsible.

You post a lot for a very long time, and many people here believe what you say. 
You are very obviously concerned about growing your social status here.
However, your methods are akin to alchemy, and years of alchemy are not a solid supporting argument.

Insulting me does not change that it's irresponsible for you to say that OTC E2 creams have much lower doses than pharma gels. 
Because it's not true. People believe you and won't do blood work. What are the consequences of unwanted trans-HRT?

Sure, grown-up people should not trust forums for medical advice from amateurs like us.
But it's an OTC unregulated product - some people are teenagers, and most adults lack critical thinking skills.
What is an acceptable cost for a tiny community respect?

If, knowing all that, you still do the same again and again, you are irresponsible. I didn't call you that. If it's an honest mistake - it was an irresponsible action that could be corrected. It's up to you what you do with that.

[Heaven's Night]

I think this thread should be renamed to TCP by Ernie.

I base nearly all the things I do on research Lotus has put into all this, she's far better with the science side and details than I am. The rest is trial and error. I obviously know nothing about anything at all, so by all means, educate us.

[Ernie]

I suggest you add something besides drama to the topic or chill. 
If you perceive any critics as attacks on your ego, it doesn't help you or the topic.
My intention is to find the truth and prevent other people's mistakes, and not hurt you personally.

[Heaven's Night]

You already did.

I'll leave this at at that, I can't argue you with science as I'm really bad at quoting stuff from memory. Lotus is super good at that and she can reply everything in much detail. I wanted to post about last two months on TCP, but I'm totally off the mood now.

I'm just a dumb ass bitch who doesn't know her ass from her elbow. And I say irresponsible things.

[Heaven's Night]

You post a lot for a very long time, and many people here believe what you say. 
You are very obviously concerned about growing your social status here.
However, your methods are akin to alchemy, and years of alchemy are not a solid supporting argument.

I'm very concerned on growing my boobs. Social status, what the fuck are you mumbling about? I do have few awesome friends here and I do care for them, this is not a popularity contest. This is about breast dwevelopment and feminising body modification. 

Alchemy, I guess you can call what I do what ever the fuck you will you know-it-all-better-than-thou mansplainer. As far as alchemy is concerned, the only part of my HRT and NBE program that is obsecured by lack of studies to an extent, is taking bovine ovary and other glandulars.

No supporting argument? How about big tits I carry around with me all day. I guess alchemy made them. 

Insulting me does not change that it's irresponsible for you to say that OTC E2 creams have much lower doses than pharma gels. 
Because it's not true. People believe you and won't do blood work. What are the consequences of unwanted trans-HRT?

As you shout, so shall the forest answer to you.

Apples and oranges, tiny doses of creams are nowhere near it. I'm talking QUANTITY and absorbtion. Two pumps usually does 40mg of estriol, estradiol or prog in a cream. Forty milligrams. How does that compare to 200mg of prog gel from a prog capsule? Forty versus two hundred? Is the math mathing? This is the difference that I was talking about, quantity, dosing per day.

Sure, grown-up people should not trust forums for medical advice from amateurs like us.
But it's an OTC unregulated product - some people are teenagers, and most adults lack critical thinking skills.
What is an acceptable cost for a tiny community respect?

BN is an adult forum, of course anyone can register and read. I can't control who reads my posts, neither can you. None of us know who the several hundred lurkers are at any given moment. Its up to adult people to be responsible with what they read. I mention it from time to time, my posts are not medical advice, I'm not a professional. But I'm not responsble for who reads and what they make of it.

Respect is earned, not given. You should know that. 

If, knowing all that, you still do the same again and again, you are irresponsible. I didn't call you that. If it's an honest mistake - it was an irresponsible action that could be corrected. It's up to you what you do with that.

Yes you did, you pulled my post and called it irresponsible when I said creams aren't as potent as HRT medications. You didn't understand the fact that I was talking about fucking dosing, fucking quantities used for TCP, the topic of this thread. 

I suggest you add something besides drama to the topic or chill. 
If you perceive any critics as attacks on your ego, it doesn't help you or the topic.
My intention is to find the truth and prevent other people's mistakes, and not hurt you personally.

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass and learn reading comprehension before you say shit about my posts and fuck it up somehow and then end up speaking about respect. I will not respect you one bit until you earn it. I can take criticism, I can also argue about my points, but with you it feels like chess with a pigeon. I've been very helpful about the topic of this thread as you can see if you go read earlier posts and practice some reading comprehension. 

That is my intention too. The truth is that what I do, is highly successful, for me at least. Alchemy is awesome. Holier-than-thou pissing fest on this thread is not. Neither is mansplaining and pulling my words out of context. 

[Ernie]

You clearly stated that OTC E2 is far lower concentration than estrogel. That is not true. Your gaslighting is not working - I can read.

I dont need your or anyone else's respect here and you can't earn it from me, because you spend a lot of time and it ends up spreading damaging misinformation and you dont want to own and correct your mistakes. This is not art discussion forum - your mistakes damage people's health. Because you spent so much time, people think that you actually can be trusted. And stupid people are people too - they hurt the same

If you would be more concerned about finding the truth - you would not be aggressively widening drama, but would think about your arguments and consider that you might be wrong.

And stop throwing that ridiculous mansplainer argument - you're on the same mtf hrt as me and it's a pointless attempt to defend your position by insulting me.

Anyway, I would continue the talk if it will be on topic.

P.S. Your "big tits" is an argument for genetics and tons of E2 and P4. There are mtf monotherapy users with the same results. And maybe something from the tons of stuff you consume works specifically for you. You might be doing massive swelling by all that stuff. And you dont know what and why it works with unknown health side effects. But you push it like it's verified and tested. It's not and some of your practices are dangerous.

P.P.S. I know that alchemy is the whole this forum stance, so no wonder you think it's awesome.