Pure HHM would be where I'm working entirely on the bodies own natural internal hormone pathways to reshape them to my own purposes.

The main problem I was having with the approach was that I couldn't do anything to increase my estrogen really. Some of what I was doing was redirecting some of my T into E, but no where near enough.

Examples of HHM herbs are things like saw palmetto, licorice root, chaste berry, chinese skullcap... there're WAAAAAAAY too many to list even half of them without literally writing a book on the subject. Which would be a waste, because there're already excellent resources out there if you just know where to look and what to look for.

My main targets were the stages of reduction where a given molecule that started live as cholesterol gets reduced into various steroids. I wanted to boost the efficacy of some, while blocking others.

The method only partially works. It made me more androgynous, but that was it. Tender, puffy, nipples and areola, but no real development. Some fat redistribution, but nothing significant. Some lightening of body hair, but nothing significant.

My real goal is, of course, full transition... So I had to redesign my system to include actual progesterone and estrogen. I had toyed with weaker phytoestrogens, but none of them really worked. When I stumbled across PM, I decided to do more research on why people seem to have so much more success with it, and thus my new plan started taking shape with my discovery that PM's major phytochemical is almost identical to estradiol.

That's actually kind of coincidental on the grounds that I actually at the moment would like to go for a more androgynous appearance, but I'm guessing the male body doesn't even manage to produce nearly as much estrogen as was needed for actual development. I'm really interested on how your personal program will be designed and would like to hear more about it as you go along.

When you stopped your old HHM Plan did you have any health problems or pains? or are you still continuing as you change your program?

When you stopped your old HHM Plan did you have any health problems or pains? or are you still continuing as you change your program?

I'm mostly still on it. I've removed the licorice already to allow it to fully leave my system before I start on the Chinese Skullcap because the two of them can interact in seriously negative ways. Basically, both glycyrrhizic acid in the licorice and baicalein in the skullcap act on the pathway to allow the reductions to both aldosterone and cortisol on two parallel branches. This can lead to a condition called pseudohyperaldosteronism even with licorice alone. The two of them suppress the pathway in slightly different ways, so instead of competing, they aid each other... so a "can lead to" suddenly turns into an absolute.

Otherwise, I'm still following the rest of it until I get everything ordered and it gets here.

You've really done your research, do you know of any NBE regiments that wouldn't cause such a stress on your body? I understand that all plans would have a certain risk to them.. I guess what I'm asking is if theres a good NBE regime that I can take on and off just so my body can get used to the chemicals.?

I know you shouldn't start this unless your 100% serious, but I'm really worried about my financial situation preventing me to continue regimes for small periods of time.

Hm. I don't really know too much on what could be even moderately effective without being too stressful.

Definitely, DEFINITELY, include Saw Palmetto. I suggest using a standardized extract, they come as either a 160 mg or 320 mg veggie cap. The "Whole Herb" can contain too many contaminants and unnecessary constituents which can cause complications. You can get 320 mg for a fair price here: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/DB171/ItemDetail

I personally take 1280 mg a day of standardized extract. If you're trying not to be too harsh on your body, I'd suggest at most only half of that.

I'd also suggest taking Chinese Skullcap to further gunk up that testosterone pathway. I'm going to be taking 4800 mg at first, but I'm honestly not too sure of the safety of that. To be completely perfectly safe, do not exceed 1200 mg a day. This is the amount that's generally used for anti-inflammatory purposes and the herb is 100% KNOWN to be safe in that amount.

As for a "safe" phytoestrogen that's also not too ridiculously expensive... I've -HEARD- a lot of positive things about fennel greek. PM shouldn't be bad as long as you keep your dose low, though. Maybe get this liquid extract and try it at a lower-than-recommended dose at first and maybe ramp it up if and when you feel comfortable doing so: http://www.amazon.com/Ainterol-Pueraria-Mirifica-Extract-1-01fl-oz/dp/B0058D92H6/ref=sr_1_15?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1346383014&sr=1-15

By the way, I have my new plan posted now: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12888

I know you shouldn't start this unless your 100% serious, but I'm really worried about my financial situation preventing me to continue regimes for small periods of time.

Using whatever you buy in small doses to acclimate your body to the new herb would also extend how long it takes for you to use up a particular product.

As for a "safe" phytoestrogen that's also not too ridiculously expensive... I've -HEARD- a lot of positive things about fennel greek. PM shouldn't be bad as long as you keep your dose low, though. Maybe get this liquid extract and try it at a lower-than-recommended dose at first and maybe ramp it up if and when you feel comfortable doing so: http://www.amazon.com/Ainterol-Pueraria-Mirifica-Extract-1-01fl-oz/dp/B0058D92H6/ref=sr_1_15?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1346383014&sr=1-15

Out of curiosity, what do you mean about pm shouldn't be bad at low doses? Are you referring to possible side-effects or something else?

Out of curiosity, what do you mean about pm shouldn't be bad at low doses? Are you referring to possible side-effects or something else?

Well, effects both side and intended. It -sounds- to me like Opalescent wants to start out smaller, and just toy with it for a bit before dedicating themselves entirely.

I can relate, I was there once upon a time... long before I even knew about this site, lol.

Honestly, there really shouldn't be ANY "side effects" of taking PM. You're taking estradiol for all intents and purposes. Your effects as such should be identical to if you were taking the "real thing".

But for SOME people on these forums, that in and of itself can be considered a side effect used internally.....

Me, I want this effect. But I'll be the first to admit I'm an oddity around here.

AbiDrew85 wrote:

As for a "safe" phytoestrogen that's also not too ridiculously expensive... I've -HEARD- a lot of positive things about fennel greek

I think you have confused Fennel with Fenugreek, two differently tasting herbs, used with different dishes in cooking(Fennel is excellent with pork, Fenugreek is a must in curry), but both strong pytoestrogens in their own right.

Durrrr. Good catch.

It's fenugreek I meant. Soz.

I haven't heard as much about fennel... but yeah, it's got some fair bit of phytoestrogen to it.

TBH though, after seeing the chemical makeup of PM... I'm not sure why anyone would wanna try anything else. It's practically IDENTICAL to estradiol. Heck. I'll bet even serum and saliva hormone tests wouldn't pick up the difference, it's that minute.