I thought you said it was .02/ 100mg

wouldn't that be .8mg

.02x20=.4mg (2000mg)

.02x40=.8mg(4000)

so at this rate I am taking .4mg of miroestrol when taking 2000mg of PM.

When I was taking 4000mg I was getting .8mg miroestrol.

.08

Sorry David, lotus has a head cold!

4g

That's according to this article:

http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2(1).htm

I used this,

http://www.convertunits.com/from/milligram/to/g

so at this rate I am taking .4mg of miroestrol when taking 2000mg of PM.

When I was taking 4000mg I was getting .8mg miroestrol.

.08

Sorry David, lotus has a head cold!

4g

That's according to this article:

http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2(1).htm

So, like I said, can't find the original article and it's driving me crazy!

so at this rate I am taking .4mg of miroestrol when taking 2000mg of PM.

When I was taking 4000mg I was getting .8mg miroestrol.

.08

Sorry David, lotus has a head cold!

4g

That's according to this article:

http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2(1).htm

So, like I said, can't find the original article and it's driving me crazy!

So again, anybody?

This statement came from a 2006 article

The activity of phytoestrogen is much weaker than the steroidal estrogen, varying from 0.005-2%

http://www.dweckdata.com/Published_papers/IJCD.pdf


What products range from .005 to 2% ???

I wouldn't try the standard PM product web pages, not gonna be there, I can attest to that. I've also poured through research material and have asked a dozen different variables. So, wtf!, other than being some closely guarded secret.

Which now I understand why they wouldn't want us knowing, that's the best I can come up with, sorry!

Nothing surprises me anymore... I came here and joined and ordered the PM from ainterol and not too long after i now have fully budding breasts in a way past A cup. I dont measure them but bottom line is... That stuff flat out works on an ultra flat chested man to create breasts. I am quiet certain they are very noticeable in a tshirt now and there is no hiding them. They feel like breasts and look like breasts and bounce like breasts. Any doubters should be very confident that this is the right product to use.

M. Lotus,

I can't begin to express my appreciation for the research and shared information you have so generously given all of us. So many very complex variables, it makes me dizzy.

I have neither the time, nor the personal knowledge, to fully understand all of it. What I have learned, I have learned here at BreastNexus and particularly from you and a few of your friends.

As you know, your invitation to PM you has been gratefully accepted, but at this moment, I don't even know what to share.

To be simple and brief for the moment, are you saying that the "understood" PM miroestrol amount is or is not effective?

I have been been "eye bleedingly" searching myself and have some thoughts, if not solid research to share, (not a lot current out there). I am sorry it will have to wait until I search a bit more and get a bit more sleep (bed time).

As an aside, I am happy for you and your candor regarding seeing an Endo (Samantha played it like a violin in her, "Sammie has a secret" thread, LOL). Where ever life's path leads, I wish you happiness.

Please excuse my rather "stiff" demeanor. It is a personal quirk, not a reflection of the usual friendly banter I see so many share and envy on this site. Perhaps one day...

OK, enough meandering for now. I AM going to sort this out.

Hugs, Love and,

Best Wishes,

ZOE

M. Lotus,

I can't begin to express my appreciation for the research and shared information you have so generously given all of us. So many very complex variables, it makes me dizzy.

I have neither the time, nor the personal knowledge, to fully understand all of it. What I have learned, I have learned here at BreastNexus and particularly from you and a few of your friends.

As you know, your invitation to PM you has been gratefully accepted, but at this moment, I don't even know what to share.

To be simple and brief for the moment, are you saying that the "understood" PM miroestrol amount is or is not effective?

I have been been "eye bleedingly" searching myself and have some thoughts, if not solid research to share, (not a lot current out there). I am sorry it will have to wait until I search a bit more and get a bit more sleep (bed time).

As an aside, I am happy for you and your candor regarding seeing an Endo (Samantha played it like a violin in her, "Sammie has a secret" thread, LOL). Where ever life's path leads, I wish you happiness.

Please excuse my rather "stiff" demeanor. It is a personal quirk, not a reflection of the usual friendly banter I see so many share and envy on this site. Perhaps one day...

OK, enough meandering for now. I AM going to sort this out.

Hugs, Love and,

Best Wishes,

ZOE

ZOE,

You're so sweet, thank you!.

Let me first say to all, I'm not throwing PM under the bus! My point was that the
effects of PM (miroestriol, dexymiroestriol) should be more transparent in terms of the activity.

The chemical structure of miroestriol and dexymiroestriol are very similar to estradiol. The one big advantage that PM has over estradiol are the risks involved. And of course there has been other studies to suggest the exact opposite, however PM has an affinity to attach itself to estrogen receptors, blocking out harmful real estrogen. Link below:


Noteable facts:
The primary source of estrogen in normally cycling adult women is the ovarian follicle, which secretes 70 to 500 mcg of Estradiol daily, depending on the phase of the menstrual cycle. 

Most men produce 6-8 mg of the male hormone testosterone (an androgen) per day, compared to most women who produce 0.5 mg daily. Female hormones, estrogens, are also present in both sexes, but in larger amounts for women.

Estradiol Tablets USP for oral administration 0.5, 1 or 2 mg of micronized Estradiol per tablet. (Just for comparison)


Phytoestrogens modulate binding response of ER-a and ER-b to the estrogen response element. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14664520


Found this as it relates:

I think I read that 500mg of PM has the equivalent of 1mg of deoxymiroestrol which is the seriously strong phytoestrogen in PM.
So I make that to be about .2-.25 mg of estradiol in each 500mg tablet.
Note however, that the binding effects of deoxymiroestrol to the estrogen receptors seem to be about twice as strong as those of estradiol so it may be twice as feminizing as estradiol. From that perspective 2000mg-2500mg is between half a sex change dose of estradiol to a full sex change dose (equivalent to 2mg of estradiol valerate).

I'm reluctant to take a lot of it myself as my sister has huge boobies like a d cup and I don't want to burst out, just really would like bigger nipples and small buds so I'm doing no more than 1000mg a day till the bottle is finished (120 tablets of 500 mg each) then I'll probably leave it at that.

I'm reluctant to take a lot of it myself as my sister has huge boobies like a d cup and I don't want to burst out, just really would like bigger nipples and small buds so I'm doing no more than 1000mg a day till the bottle is finished (120 tablets of 500 mg each) then I'll probably leave it at that.

Irrespective of the relevant potency of any ingredients, it doesn't work the way you are implying.
1) The size of your female relatives may be a guide to what is possible, although not infallible. My mother wore a D cup and my sisters are both ample, but after 18months I still don't fully fill a B.
2) However big you might possibly be capable of getting to, it will still take several YEARS to get there.
3) It isn't a case of suddenly 'bursting out' if you take too much PM for too long, and when you stop taking the PM, you WILL lose volume unless you drop to a small maintenance dose for the rest of your life.

David this was pretty much what we were discussing lol.

I hope the dosage equivalence is more than just simple math. Most of the estradiol pills I've noticed are 2mg, then 25% of 500mg PM is equivalent to 125mg estradiol. And that's only one pill. Some here take 2,000 mg or 3,000 mg of PM. So is 25% of 2,000mg PM equivalent to 500mg estradiol. With a dose that strong one might expect to grow breasts overnight (just kidding).

All kidding aside, is there any significant difference between "estradiol" and "estradiol valerate"?

No it's more like 4mg of PM active ingredient (deoxymiroestrol) is equivalent to 1mg of Estradiol. I don't know exactly what dose of PM however, contains what does of deoxymiroestrol so I can't really say.

As for estradiol vs estradiol valerate: estradiol is the most powerful estrogen in the body. Estradiol valerate is an artificial chemical version of estradiol which the body can absorb and convert to estradiol.

But yes, basically I think PM is the real deal.

I'll have some more surprising facts about phytoestrogens, like the several possible mechanisms by which phytoestrogens may exert their effects. PhytoSERMS, Estrogenic potency of phytoestrogens, etc.

Yeah I know, you'll be holding your breathe till then.