Dc

well its all there

Look at the girls on pharma in HRT section,

many many of them say

no goals to transition

etc etc

now there on pharma and all steam ahead,

the common link seems to be pharma,

and in many other forums,

but here pm seems to take many to a point then something kicks in and they try HRT and never seem to come back,

if I am not mistaken

Eva is one girl who is ?

Julie

Full steam ahead is right...

I transitioned at 19, started with some oral estrogen in small doses then I just went full transition afterwards.
Lived as a girl till 25 then I just stopped because for many reasons it wasn't what I wanted.

There's a mental change when on E, subtle, but looking back I can spot several things:

• I got really tired at first, but that lower energy state quickly became my norm.
  
• Gradually I became less frustrated and angry, calmer and happier.
  
• Although relatives were against my transition, my new behaviour was more to their liking. So they naturally became more positive around me which I mistakenly took as a sort of gained acceptance. Like being a woman was what I was meant to be, since everyone is nicer to me now.
  
• My strengths in life changed, I became more vocal, less intense and could keep better track of my thoughts. This I only realise now because my thought process is much more one-track and obsessive than when on E, which suits my job actually.
  
  

So yeah, I can see it as a slope but in the end, once they reach close to the end point (GRS eek), if it's not for you, you'll turn back...

Dc

well its all there

Look at the girls on pharma in HRT section,

many many of them say

no goals to transition

etc etc

now there on pharma and all steam ahead,

the common link seems to be pharma,

and in many other forums,

but here pm seems to take many to a point then something kicks in and they try HRT and never seem to come back,

if I am not mistaken

Eva is one girl who is ?

Julie

Full steam ahead is right...

I transitioned at 19, started with some oral estrogen in small doses then I just went full transition afterwards.
Lived as a girl till 25 then I just stopped because for many reasons it wasn't what I wanted.

There's a mental change when on E, subtle, but looking back I can spot several things:

• I got really tired at first, but that lower energy state quickly became my norm.
  
• Gradually I became less frustrated and angry, calmer and happier.
  
• Although relatives were against my transition, my new behaviour was more to their liking. So they naturally became more positive around me which I mistakenly took as a sort of gained acceptance. Like being a woman was what I was meant to be, since everyone is nicer to me now.
  
• My strengths in life changed, I became more vocal, less intense and could keep better track of my thoughts. This I only realise now because my thought process is much more one-track and obsessive than when on E, which suits my job actually.
  
  

So yeah, I can see it as a slope but in the end, once they reach close to the end point (GRS eek), if it's not for you, you'll turn back...

So when you stopped everything your body started regaining all of its T back?

Nope. After prolonged anti-androgens your T can only bounce back to a certain level.
I have the T levels of an old man now
My endo was concerned but just told me to take more calcium. 
Wanted me to take a fertility test too, but I don't really care to pay for that. Not planning on having kids anyway

I dont consider pharma drugs something to experiment with as there are serious side effect and consequences.  Yes, people use them to test the waters so to speak.  This is just my opinion and not looking to justify my reasons but I dont think anyone should use them to experiment.  They should be used for someone who knows beyond the shadow of doubt that they want to transition. Pharma in the end..for many the effect is far reaching...so much as to have the potential to change not only the body, but the mind and one's whole emotional makeup.  Some people for reasons I don't know have little to no effect.  But ymmv in these cases.  Herbals can help relieve or release one's own need to express themselves without the commitment of pharma hrt.  Even with some health risks, they on the other hand are generally safer.  Usually those who are experimenting with herbal such as myself early on (about 17 years ago) I was just curious and disovering myself and not knowing what was wrong with me.  I did not yet know I was trans and used the herbals to feel or try to look more feminine.  This was confusing timesback then.  But after seeing minute effects..this helped the dice to get rolling.  Not only til I discovered the power of pharma did I realize my dream could come true and I had a real avenue to follow and start my transition. Just my .02 cents. 

Dc

well its all there

Look at the girls on pharma in HRT section,

many many of them say

no goals to transition

etc etc

now there on pharma and all steam ahead,

the common link seems to be pharma,

and in many other forums,

but here pm seems to take many to a point then something kicks in and they try HRT and never seem to come back,

if I am not mistaken

Eva is one girl who is ?

Julie

Full steam ahead is right...

I transitioned at 19, started with some oral estrogen in small doses then I just went full transition afterwards.
Lived as a girl till 25 then I just stopped because for many reasons it wasn't what I wanted.

There's a mental change when on E, subtle, but looking back I can spot several things:

• I got really tired at first, but that lower energy state quickly became my norm.
  
• Gradually I became less frustrated and angry, calmer and happier.
  
• Although relatives were against my transition, my new behaviour was more to their liking. So they naturally became more positive around me which I mistakenly took as a sort of gained acceptance. Like being a woman was what I was meant to be, since everyone is nicer to me now.
  
• My strengths in life changed, I became more vocal, less intense and could keep better track of my thoughts. This I only realise now because my thought process is much more one-track and obsessive than when on E, which suits my job actually.
  
  

So yeah, I can see it as a slope but in the end, once they reach close to the end point (GRS eek), if it's not for you, you'll turn back...

So when you stopped everything your body started regaining all of its T back?

When I was forced to get off hrt 10 years ago, the T returned gradually.  I think 10 years of hops and fenugreek kept it lower for those years.  But it was there.

Dc

well its all there

Look at the girls on pharma in HRT section,

many many of them say

no goals to transition

etc etc

now there on pharma and all steam ahead,

the common link seems to be pharma,

and in many other forums,

but here pm seems to take many to a point then something kicks in and they try HRT and never seem to come back,

if I am not mistaken

Eva is one girl who is ?

Julie

Julie, 

I think this is a 'nonsense' correlation. Yes that is a real statistical term. I've been injecting estradiol validate since 2012 and have no intention (still) of transitioning. In fact, about 3 weeks ago I injected my last vial and have not ordered more. I am considering using a low dose of PM as maintenance, but I haven't even ordered that yet. So far so good. Only one day with mildly unpleasant withdrawal symptoms since stopping estradiol, but then it hasn't been long enough for my T production to get back closer to normal yet, so still can't say what else will return with it (urges to dress or go back on estradiol (lol)). 

The reason I called the association you're referring to a nonsense correlation is that pharma use is definitely correlated with those wishing to transition, but (IMO) pharma does not "cause" one to want to transition. Based on my own experience and years of reading here and other sites (like Susan's and other trans websites), many of those who start pharma (perhaps most?) are already leaning very strongly in the direction. There certainly have been many from this site that have gone on to transition from 'just' using PM. Is that a mjority? No, but I think that has more to do with the myths and fear mongering around pharma use more than any causative effect pharma or PM has on 'making one want to transition.' I do think both have major psychological effects, which should be factored in to any decision to start using eihter PM or pharma, but that's a very long way from saying starting pharma will 'make one want to transition.' 

chrishoney running with scissors

well lets put it this way

PM is the start of a slippery slope,

Pharma is the slope,

Nearly everyone I speak with once on pharma over extremely small doses does not come back,

Those on pm are slower and more stable,

Julie

Julie, what do you mean by "does not come back"?  do you mean, that of those that you have spoken to who have started Pharma, like being on Pharma and stay on Pharma?

I would like to say that PM gave me a good start. I was getting actual physical results. I grew breast buds, I am no longer flat chested, and emotionally I felt WONDERFUL.

     Then I decided to make the pharma-switch, mainly because Spironolactone is covered by my insurance, and Estradiol is cheap.

     I gained absolutely NO positive results. No growth, nothing. Mr. Happy stopped getting happy but that's all.

Still on the fence of either E or PM. To aid in my decision, looking for pics of real male PM users that have gone from flat to real results. Anyone care to share?

See my post https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=28980

Go for pm if you need to experience mild to moderate effects of feminization .. good enough  breast and maybe have soft skin, and hair and a slightly shaped butt.. all this will not make you passable woman just a feminized dude.
If you want to be a passable woman go for E