Hi Chestnut,
I am a believer in BO but I totally agree that it may not be the right path for you.
The first thing that I would recommend is to add progesterone cream to your regimen to see if that helps.
See link below.
If you are thinking of moving away from PM but want to avoid BO, you might try bio-identical Estrogen, Bi-Est.
Bi-Est 5.0 (possibly not the Lotus recommended brand?)
https://www.amazon.com/HelloPharmacist-Natural-Bioidentical-Estrogen-Menopause/dp/B09ZBMJ14L/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1BIZRXQJ3H3PR&keywords=bi-est+5.0+-+estriol+%26+estradiol+cream&qid=1704053075&sprefix=bi-est%2Caps%2C473&sr=8-1
Progesterone cream (Lotus Approved, Smokey Mountain Naturals -- Progesto-Life)
https://www.amazon.com/Smoky-Mountain-Naturals-LLC-Dermatologist-Tested/dp/B00EB0AQA4/ref=sr_1_14_sspa?crid=2QNYCPN7E4K7F&keywords=hello%2Bpharmacist%2Bprogesterone&qid=1704053200&rdc=1&sprefix=hello%2Bphar%2Caps%2C391&sr=8-14-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&th=1
Karen
I am a believer in BO but I totally agree that it may not be the right path for you.
The first thing that I would recommend is to add progesterone cream to your regimen to see if that helps.
See link below.
If you are thinking of moving away from PM but want to avoid BO, you might try bio-identical Estrogen, Bi-Est.
Bi-Est 5.0 (possibly not the Lotus recommended brand?)
https://www.amazon.com/HelloPharmacist-Natural-Bioidentical-Estrogen-Menopause/dp/B09ZBMJ14L/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1BIZRXQJ3H3PR&keywords=bi-est+5.0+-+estriol+%26+estradiol+cream&qid=1704053075&sprefix=bi-est%2Caps%2C473&sr=8-1
Progesterone cream (Lotus Approved, Smokey Mountain Naturals -- Progesto-Life)
https://www.amazon.com/Smoky-Mountain-Naturals-LLC-Dermatologist-Tested/dp/B00EB0AQA4/ref=sr_1_14_sspa?crid=2QNYCPN7E4K7F&keywords=hello%2Bpharmacist%2Bprogesterone&qid=1704053200&rdc=1&sprefix=hello%2Bphar%2Caps%2C391&sr=8-14-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&th=1
Karen
This post was last modified: 31-12-2023, 09:33 PM by Karen Hart.
[unnecessary quoting removed]
Hi Karen,
Thanks for reply and for your comments and suggestions, and especially for sending the links which I will research further. At the moment I am still hoping to get some results from having switched to Ainterol PM (instead of the brand I was using previously). My understanding is that starting out with PM is the safest way to proceed, adding in anti-androgens, vitamins and minerals to assist with this. I realise now that it is not quite that straightforward. Many here appear to be making cautious progress with BO and glandular, which I had assumed to be suitable only for full transition. I guess I have a lot still to learn. That said, I have already had a lot of great support and suggestions here - I’m really grateful to everyone for taking the time to help and encourage me.
I did actually wonder about using some progesterone cream on my breasts. I understand this can add some volume, but I am unsure if I currently have enough development from PM in my breasts to add progesterone to the mix. If you think it would help I may well get some to try it out, so my thanks for the suggestion. I haven’t seen that brand on sale in the UK but will keep looking, or find a similar product. Would you be able to advise what sort of timescale I might expect to see results from this?
I’m not sure that I am ready for the Bi-Est yet. This might be something that I could only source on prescription here in the UK, though I am not sure about that. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am not looking to fully transition, but I would very much like to develop fuller and more feminine breasts while still passing as male when required. However, your comments seem to suggest that the Bi-Est may not be as much of a one-way journey as BO can be. What are your thoughts on this? Is it possible to source Bi-Est off-prescription do you think? If you have experience of BO and Bi-Est, which would you think would be most likely to help me gain volume and projection?
Sorry for all the Newbie questions! I’m trying to plan my NBE strategy for 2014!
Wishing you a Happy and successful New Year.
Chestnut
Hi Karen,
Thanks for reply and for your comments and suggestions, and especially for sending the links which I will research further. At the moment I am still hoping to get some results from having switched to Ainterol PM (instead of the brand I was using previously). My understanding is that starting out with PM is the safest way to proceed, adding in anti-androgens, vitamins and minerals to assist with this. I realise now that it is not quite that straightforward. Many here appear to be making cautious progress with BO and glandular, which I had assumed to be suitable only for full transition. I guess I have a lot still to learn. That said, I have already had a lot of great support and suggestions here - I’m really grateful to everyone for taking the time to help and encourage me.
I did actually wonder about using some progesterone cream on my breasts. I understand this can add some volume, but I am unsure if I currently have enough development from PM in my breasts to add progesterone to the mix. If you think it would help I may well get some to try it out, so my thanks for the suggestion. I haven’t seen that brand on sale in the UK but will keep looking, or find a similar product. Would you be able to advise what sort of timescale I might expect to see results from this?
I’m not sure that I am ready for the Bi-Est yet. This might be something that I could only source on prescription here in the UK, though I am not sure about that. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am not looking to fully transition, but I would very much like to develop fuller and more feminine breasts while still passing as male when required. However, your comments seem to suggest that the Bi-Est may not be as much of a one-way journey as BO can be. What are your thoughts on this? Is it possible to source Bi-Est off-prescription do you think? If you have experience of BO and Bi-Est, which would you think would be most likely to help me gain volume and projection?
Sorry for all the Newbie questions! I’m trying to plan my NBE strategy for 2014!
Wishing you a Happy and successful New Year.
Chestnut
Chestnut,
BO is in a completely different category of it's own. It is not an herb, nor a hormone. It is a glandular! My simplistic understanding of it is that it alters your hormone balance directly and changes it from a male hormone balance (testosterone dominant) to a female balance (estrogen dominant). Allegedly, this alteration can become permanent, though this has been disputed. Also, it is unknown how long a person can use BO before the permanent conversion takes over. If you do not want to transition, or live as a man with a female physique, that could be very risky. If you decide that you don't want to grow your boobs any larger, you may not have a choice. The balance has been changed and you may continue growing to your full potential. You don't need any additional phytoestrogens or progesterone, etc. BO does it all but, it can be amplified by adding Pituitary gland.
With herbs or bio-identical creams, you can stop using them and growth will cease.
As to timing of progesterone use, Lotus says that one should wait until breast buds are formed because PG could interfere with bud development and mess everything up.
I'm just thinking that you have been taking a significant amount of herbs and not getting results, so perhaps adding PG cream would help. It would be an experiment basically.
If a person is on a good regimen, they should see or feel some results within a few weeks but it varies so much by individual. If there are no results at all for six months, something has to be changed. What is a good regimen? Products that are known and proven to yield results, doses in the correct range and consistency of use.
Outside of BO, an effective core program should have an AA, a source of Estrogen and source of Progesterone.
Does Amazon UK have the two products that I linked to (or similar products)?
BO is in a completely different category of it's own. It is not an herb, nor a hormone. It is a glandular! My simplistic understanding of it is that it alters your hormone balance directly and changes it from a male hormone balance (testosterone dominant) to a female balance (estrogen dominant). Allegedly, this alteration can become permanent, though this has been disputed. Also, it is unknown how long a person can use BO before the permanent conversion takes over. If you do not want to transition, or live as a man with a female physique, that could be very risky. If you decide that you don't want to grow your boobs any larger, you may not have a choice. The balance has been changed and you may continue growing to your full potential. You don't need any additional phytoestrogens or progesterone, etc. BO does it all but, it can be amplified by adding Pituitary gland.
With herbs or bio-identical creams, you can stop using them and growth will cease.
As to timing of progesterone use, Lotus says that one should wait until breast buds are formed because PG could interfere with bud development and mess everything up.
I'm just thinking that you have been taking a significant amount of herbs and not getting results, so perhaps adding PG cream would help. It would be an experiment basically.
If a person is on a good regimen, they should see or feel some results within a few weeks but it varies so much by individual. If there are no results at all for six months, something has to be changed. What is a good regimen? Products that are known and proven to yield results, doses in the correct range and consistency of use.
Outside of BO, an effective core program should have an AA, a source of Estrogen and source of Progesterone.
Does Amazon UK have the two products that I linked to (or similar products)?
This post was last modified: 31-12-2023, 11:22 PM by Karen Hart.
[unnecessary quoting removed]
Hi Karen,
Some useful information there, thank you.
Inspired by your explanations I have been reading up on the Bovine Ovary option and I do have some reservations about it at this stage. From what you have written, and also from other threads I have been reading, there does seem to be some variation in individual experiences with BO, with some getting along great, and others having alarming and seemingly sudden switching of their hormonal balance. It is certainly interesting, though, so I will read up some more on this and check back with Lotus’s notes on the matter.
For now, using glandulars sounds a little scary, so I think my approach will be to stick with herbs for a while longer to see if I can make any gains, especially after switching to what appears to be the universally popular Ainterol brand. (I guess there’s a good reason that so many here use and recommend it) I will certainly look again at vitamins, minerals and most of all, AAs and see where that leads me.
I did try Red Reishi before and saw absolutely no result from it. Of course, if the PM brand I was using was ineffective, no amount of perfectly good RR would have made any difference! I am weighing up whether to get fresh supplies of RR, or if I should introduce White Peony instead. If you have an opinion on that I would love to know.
The progesterone cream sounds like it might be a good idea, too. Unfortunately I can’t seem to track down a supply anywhere in the UK (It lists on eBay but they have no stock, and Amazon UK do not have any) I wonder if it is restricted from sale over here or is prescription-only? If anyone in the UK has had good results with a brand here, I would appreciate some guidance.
Thanks for the observation regarding when to commence using progesterone cream, having first waited for budding to complete. (I was sure that I had read something Luton wrote about this, but then couldn’t fine the reference)
This is something that I am very unsure about. I am reasonably certain that I started budding about 2 years ago. My nipples became painfully tender and I couldn’t bear pressure or friction on them, and I resorted to using nipple shields for some weeks to protect them. They itched like crazy, too. After a couple of weeks I could feel a firmer area of tissue below the nipples, but it wasn’t the hard, ball-shape lump than many seem to describe. It was more diverse and larger and I could kind of grab it and move it around in the softer fatty tissue surrounding it if that makes any sense!
Subsequently, things seem to have settled down mostly, though I do still get occasional bouts if intense itching and tenderness around the nipples. The strange thing is that I am not certain if I have fully budded or not. My nipples are now way bigger than they were before all this started, and are extremely sensitive to stimulation. My areaolae have not enlarged or darkened much - maybe an inch or so across, so not hugely bigger than the much-enlarged nipples in fact. Can anybody confirm from my description if they think I have successfully budded or not? If I have, I think I will be needing some progesterone cream very soon!
Sorry for the rambling post!
Chestnut
Hi Karen,
Some useful information there, thank you.
Inspired by your explanations I have been reading up on the Bovine Ovary option and I do have some reservations about it at this stage. From what you have written, and also from other threads I have been reading, there does seem to be some variation in individual experiences with BO, with some getting along great, and others having alarming and seemingly sudden switching of their hormonal balance. It is certainly interesting, though, so I will read up some more on this and check back with Lotus’s notes on the matter.
For now, using glandulars sounds a little scary, so I think my approach will be to stick with herbs for a while longer to see if I can make any gains, especially after switching to what appears to be the universally popular Ainterol brand. (I guess there’s a good reason that so many here use and recommend it) I will certainly look again at vitamins, minerals and most of all, AAs and see where that leads me.
I did try Red Reishi before and saw absolutely no result from it. Of course, if the PM brand I was using was ineffective, no amount of perfectly good RR would have made any difference! I am weighing up whether to get fresh supplies of RR, or if I should introduce White Peony instead. If you have an opinion on that I would love to know.
The progesterone cream sounds like it might be a good idea, too. Unfortunately I can’t seem to track down a supply anywhere in the UK (It lists on eBay but they have no stock, and Amazon UK do not have any) I wonder if it is restricted from sale over here or is prescription-only? If anyone in the UK has had good results with a brand here, I would appreciate some guidance.
Thanks for the observation regarding when to commence using progesterone cream, having first waited for budding to complete. (I was sure that I had read something Luton wrote about this, but then couldn’t fine the reference)
This is something that I am very unsure about. I am reasonably certain that I started budding about 2 years ago. My nipples became painfully tender and I couldn’t bear pressure or friction on them, and I resorted to using nipple shields for some weeks to protect them. They itched like crazy, too. After a couple of weeks I could feel a firmer area of tissue below the nipples, but it wasn’t the hard, ball-shape lump than many seem to describe. It was more diverse and larger and I could kind of grab it and move it around in the softer fatty tissue surrounding it if that makes any sense!
Subsequently, things seem to have settled down mostly, though I do still get occasional bouts if intense itching and tenderness around the nipples. The strange thing is that I am not certain if I have fully budded or not. My nipples are now way bigger than they were before all this started, and are extremely sensitive to stimulation. My areaolae have not enlarged or darkened much - maybe an inch or so across, so not hugely bigger than the much-enlarged nipples in fact. Can anybody confirm from my description if they think I have successfully budded or not? If I have, I think I will be needing some progesterone cream very soon!
Sorry for the rambling post!
Chestnut
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