I guess I just never really equated them with being effeminate. They just were. At least in my own voice. But I knew a coupla guys with softer voices but WITHOUT clear enunciation and a slight lisp which I DID equate with being effeminate... But I equated it as more of a "gay" effeminate if you know what I mean. Not feminine, but gay male. And that's not what I'm after! I want a feminine voice, not a gay male voice!

I think the MOST masculine trait of my before voice was the complete lack of any sort of emotional context. It was flat sounding. To me, at least. And that gave it a very masculine sound. The flatness. Those other guys I mentioned? Their voices were definitely not flat.

Wow....you really remind me of myself to a sometimes disturbing degree. The thing I've always been most afraid of...is if I decided to transition, that I'd end up with a "gay" male voice. I'm not bigoted in the least, but I definitely do NOT want one of those lol....I would rather sound like a guy altogether than go there!

As for the complete lack of emotion...I started to say you sounded like a "really bored female" but forgot to. The lack of emotion doesn't make it any more masculine to me, just disinterested.

Not trying to bring you down or anything (even though I know you're one of the only people on here who actually knows how to take criticism well), just trying to give you a third person perspective. I think hearing feedback from others on this subject will really help you pinpoint the best voice you can for your image. :3 <3

This is why I said I'm glad its not just me lol...I really don't want Abi to think I'm being overly critical. I thought it was worth being honest if it helps her to achieve a more naturally feminine voice. I don't guess "you sounded girly enough to begin with" would be taken as an insult anyway though ;p

If its all subconscious, maybe it'll just take some time. I know if I had the courage to leave the house dressed as a female...at first I'd sound like a pre-pubescent elf who breathes helium!

LOL! You REALLY didn't need to worry! I guess I do take criticism well... lol.

I'm definitely not offended at all! Just puzzled. Trying to understand what you're hearing.

It could certainly explain why I've basically ALWAYS been taken for female on the phone, considering what funny things phone compression can do to the general shape of the voice, the main thing to go on from a phone to try to gender type a voice would probably be the enunciation and softness of it.

LOL! You REALLY didn't need to worry! I guess I do take criticism well... lol.

I'm definitely not offended at all! Just puzzled. Trying to understand what you're hearing.

It could certainly explain why I've basically ALWAYS been taken for female on the phone, considering what funny things phone compression can do to the general shape of the voice, the main thing to go on from a phone to try to gender type a voice would probably be the enunciation and softness of it.

I remember, even before taking PM....I always kind of liked it when people mistook my voice on the phone for a female's. I knew it should've offended me, but I found it to be confirmation that I wasn't a "man". And my connotation of that word is highly negative lol

This month off of PM sucks...I'm spending entirely too much time thinking about gender. Sorry to flood your thread with my super high forum activity ;p

Wow....you really remind me of myself to a sometimes disturbing degree. The thing I've always been most afraid of...is if I decided to transition, that I'd end up with a "gay" male voice. I'm not bigoted in the least, but I definitely do NOT want one of those lol....I would rather sound like a guy altogether than go there!

As for the complete lack of emotion...I started to say you sounded like a "really bored female" but forgot to. The lack of emotion doesn't make it any more masculine to me, just disinterested.

Yeah. I'm not bigoted at all either... But *I'M* not a gay male, so I don't want to sound like one! I have nothing against gay men... I'm just not one.

LOL. "Really bored female". LOL. Problem was that that was my voice ALL the time. Even when mentally I was putting emotion into my voice, once my mouth opened it always came out flat.

Differences of interpretation I guess. And I suppose another large part of it is your mental image of the person you're listening to. We all have our preconceived images for other people, and I suppose that the one everyone here has of me is a "female" one. So you consequently put everything from me into a female context. Making my flat male voice come across as a bored female one!

Works for me. I still want an even more feminine voice though. My goal is to pass completely unquestionably in every way possible. And then some. If at all possible I'd like to be kinda sexy

I remember, even before taking PM....I always kind of liked it when people mistook my voice on the phone for a female's. I knew it should've offended me, but I found it to be confirmation that I wasn't a "man". And my connotation of that word is highly negative lol

This month off of PM sucks...I'm spending entirely too much time thinking about gender. Sorry to flood your thread with my super high forum activity ;p

Haha. I was never offended, never even paused to think about being offended. Before, I'd just take it in stride. Usually I'd correct them, but patiently. When I realized who I was I eventually stopped bothering to correct anyone.

I don't put a "highly negative" connotation to the concept of being male... Only to the concept of ME being male. I'm not one. Not in the LEAST. I'm really quite girly! But part of that is that I am attracted to men... Despite, perhaps even because of all their infuriating traits... I'm also attracted to butch females though. I'm bi. I have no problem admitting that.

I'm attracted mostly by personality, as, I think, most bisexual girls are... It's the "gentle defender" type that attracts me. Definitely a masculine or butch personality type, but with a gentleness to it. I do NOT like brashness.

Yeah. I'm not bigoted at all either... But *I'M* not a gay male, so I don't want to sound like one! I have nothing against gay men... I'm just not one.


Differences of interpretation I guess. And I suppose another large part of it is your mental image of the person you're listening to. We all have our preconceived images for other people, and I suppose that the one everyone here has of me is a "female" one. So you consequently put everything from me into a female context. Making my flat male voice come across as a bored female one!

Works for me. I still want an even more feminine voice though. My goal is to pass completely unquestionably in every way possible. And then some. If at all possible I'd like to be kinda sexy

Mission accomplished. By that I mean, I'm more envious of women than I am sexually attracted to them, and I am SO jealous of you!!! I don't think I'll ever have half of your courage, self confidence, or beauty. I hate myself way too much to lol

But yeah, I guess I'm attracted to femininity to some degree, as masculinity is super gross. So being gay has no appeal to me, although I guess that'd be easier. Argh.



You probably think I'm a coward. I agree.

I guess we're different in the aspect of sexual orientation. I hate men altogether, most of all myself as one. For me to ever be attracted to a man, he'd have to basically be a female lol

Just finally got the chance to listen to your voice recordings (that's awesome that you posted those, btw). I agree with what someone else said. You do sound slightly effeminate in the original recording, and probably only need to slightly change it from that. Your recent recording is a little high-pitched, but I think subtlety may be your best friend. Still VERY girlie sounding, just maybe dial it back some.

I really can't control it. Maybe over time it'll settle back into something more "normal"... But since it's the result of subliminal programming, I don't have any more conscious control than anyone else on their "regular" voice.

Hi Abi,

I listened to the recordings and I think I know what Doll is referring to as it being "a little high-pitched." When I was researching female voice characteristics I came across a lot of discussion about "falsetto", especially concerning MtF transsexuals. The second recording sounds like you have crossed into falsetto (at least to me). From my research I learned it's hard to have a really beautiful voice in that range because (in falsetto) the vocal cords can't produce sufficient overtones.

Just my two cents (take it with a grain of salt)! I know you are determined and will work it out in the end.

Best,

Misty

Hi Abi,

I listened to the recordings and I think I know what Doll is referring to as it being "a little high-pitched." When I was researching female voice characteristics I came across a lot of discussion about "falsetto", especially concerning MtF transsexuals. The second recording sounds like you have crossed into falsetto (at least to me). From my research I learned it's hard to have a really beautiful voice in that range because (in falsetto) the vocal cords can't produce sufficient overtones.

Just my two cents (take it with a grain of salt)! I know you are determined and will work it out in the end.

Best,

Misty

Yep. I hear it too. I'm sure it's just a temporary stage and it'll all work out in the end. I still have over a month to go of the program.

Hey AbiDrew,

I'm not sure if you already bought some diatomaceous earth or were just thinking about getting some, so I just thought I'd share that I looked up a bunch of agricultural stores around where I live to call and see if they carried it, and the first one I called had it! A big 22KG bag for only $15.99. I called all of them (I had a list of 7 or 8) and one other place also had the same size bag for the same price. So if you have any agro stores near you, they may carry it!

Hey AbiDrew,

I'm not sure if you already bought some diatomaceous earth or were just thinking about getting some, so I just thought I'd share that I looked up a bunch of agricultural stores around where I live to call and see if they carried it, and the first one I called had it! A big 22KG bag for only $15.99. I called all of them (I had a list of 7 or 8) and one other place also had the same size bag for the same price. So if you have any agro stores near you, they may carry it!

Thanks for the tip! Though I already bought it elsewhere... And this stuff does last a VERY long time.

Are you sure you're getting the food grade stuff though? It HAS to be the food grade!